someone pls tell me i made an arithmetic error - cargo capacity problem

[xrated]

thanks for your post.

well, folks, i weighed the truck this morning with the hitch and a full tank of fuel, me, and the stuff i normally put in the truck. gulp......

4900 front; 6000 allowed per sticker.

3440 rear; 6500 allowed per sticker.

adding the wife and dogs yields an additional 200 lbs. that makes the truck 8540; 10000 allowed per sticker. now if one of you would be willing to haul the trailer where and when i need you to, we're in good shape.

otherwise, i need to add 1675 @15% or 2221 @20%. in other words, i'm anywhere from 215 - 761 over on ccc. i'll weigh the trailer in december when we leave again, but either way i'm over.

any ideas short of trading trucks? i prefer this over trading the 5er. the truck has depreciated way less than the 303rls.

thanks

Charley......Thanks for being concerned enough to go get a truck weight. Based on that info, that leaves you with 1460 lb of available payload for the truck when it is loaded and ready to go camping. Unfortunately, even a totally unloaded 303 with absolutely nothing in it, will put you over the payload and GVWR of the truck. You might as well put any thoughts of 15% for pin weight out of your mind. As I've stated earlier, 5th Wheel Camping trailers are going to put 20% and sometimes as much as 25% of their weight on the truck as pin weight. Very, very seldom does that percentage go under 20%, but maybe on a heavily loaded Toy Hauler with multiple motorcycles in the garage, or a smallish car back there. So realistically, with the trailer loaded for camping, you are going to be putting 2200 to 2300 lbs of pin on the truck that only has 1460 to give. And again, I can certainly feel the pain as I described my situation previously. At the time I bought my Dually to replace the F250 with the 2148 lbs of payload, I was towing a 13K GVWR tow behind Toy Hauler. The truck had an aux. tank in the bed for diesel fuel and that tank loaded was over 600 lbs...tank and fuel and pump. Then there was a cross bed toolbox with tools, etc and the bottom line was I was slightly overloaded.....so I bought the Dually, as I knew I would be buying a large 5ver Toy Hauler in the future. The "future" happened this past March and the current T.H. I own, a Momentum 394 has a GVWR of 20,000 lbs, but the truck has 5270 lbs of payload capacity, so I'm good to go.

I certainly wish you well with this, as I know first hand the situation that you are in. Hopefully, you will come out OK in this, but I certainly would recommend getting a larger truck with enough payload capacity to fit the bill and safely tow the 303 that I know you love. Good Luck and keep us informed.

[charley patton]

you're right. i'll wait until we weigh the whole rig on the scale. if i'm within 100 or so pounds, judgement will prevail. if i'm about 300lbs off, i'll swap out the hitch. if i'm off more than that, i guess a ram 3500 or the new gm 2500 will be the last resort.

thanks

[NASCAR9]

I feel your pain. I have a 303RLS and a 2018 F250 diesel. My truck is for sale and a 2020 F350 has been ordered. My research found the 2500HD and 2020 F250 Max Tow would both have enough capacity.
The main reason I'm doing it is the liability factor. If I was involved in an accident (not my fault) and some lawyer says you're over weight, your fault. I'm too old to start over.

[boyscout]

rob, this is one of the things that confused me from earlier posts, re: "J" spec. i thought fuel and people needed to be added to the payload calculation. are you saying in effect, that i have added the weight of two people and fuel unnecessarily? if so, that takes care of my over capacity problem.

The numbers might look better but the tires will not.

FWIW (apples to oranges though it may be) I'm very close to 100,000km / 60,000mi on original-equipment 80psi Michelin tires on a Ford 350 SRW. About 20% of that has been towing close to GVWR capacity with a heavier trailer than yours. I could probably go another 10K km / 6k mi or so on them if not towing. Doesn't seem like the Firestones have done you well. As per @LV Naturist, consider finding a tire well-rated for the work you're doing.

[cookinwitdiesel]

The payload rating of the truck is a guideline but it points to the GVWR which at the end of the day is the important number. Fuel up the truck, load it for camping, get the family in it, and hit the scales with and without the trailer. Regardless of what the payload sticker says, the truck GVWR, RAWR, and tire ratings are what you need to pay attention to. The payload is simply calculated based on the GVWR-options-some combo of fuel and passenger. At the end of the day, GVWR is the governing number you need to stay under. Once you adopt this mindset, it gets easier to think about.

Sadly, the diesel 3/4 ton trucks are limited due to their 10,000# GVWR. I made the same journey. Bought a GMC 2500HD Duramax last fall along with a 28' TT. The 2144# payload on that thing went FAST. Pretty much, a 3/4 ton diesel is a great tow vehicle - for just about any but the largest of TTs. Once you go to a fifth wheel, you are squarely in 1-ton space. The smaller trailers will work with a SRW but most 5ers will call for a DRW.

In June I traded in my 9 month old 2500HD for a 3500HD DRW and STILL will get close to the limits with my current setup (since the 2019 and older GMCs are 13025 GVWR vs 14000 for the other DRWs in the space). At the end of the day, that trade cost me about $10k - expensive lesson. When we bought the first truck and trailer, we thought - we will never need/want a fifth wheel! (LOL) and this truck should last us forever!

A quick note on pin weights, GD advertises my trailer with a 2900# pin weight (unloaded obviously). After loading up to camp, adding generator and washer/dryer, that will be nearly 4000#. The advertised numbers don't count for squat. Load it, weight it, make informed decisions

[charley patton]

yea, thanks for that. i've weighed the truck, so i know i have an issue. what's wild about all this, which is emotionally discentivizing is that i go to a lot of campgrounds and judge that about 75% of the 5ers in my weight class are being pulled by diesel 250's of all brands. i know that doesn't make it right, but what it tells me is that a bunch of folks are being fooled by vehicle and rv advertising. i think gm is the first to catch on to this problem, noting how they are promoting their 2020 2500 and 3500 class trucks(emphasis on payload).

[Skiddy]

Good luck on your venture, when you weigh the trailer it would be of interest to see what it is. I bet the pin is over 2400# with a loaded ready to hit the road rig. At that weight you are over the payload of the TV before you add anything to the truck, like people and cargo and hitch. As you point out, payload is important and GCWR is the other major number to watch.

[xrated]

And to add again.....Anytime and every time you are over the payload number, you are automatically over the GVWR of the truck. The only exception I could think of is if you remove the tailgate, or running boards or something like that. And as little as those items weigh, the increased amount of payload would be insignificant anyway.

[cookinwitdiesel]

yea, thanks for that. i've weighed the truck, so i know i have an issue. what's wild about all this, which is emotionally discentivizing is that i go to a lot of campgrounds and judge that about 75% of the 5ers in my weight class are being pulled by diesel 250's of all brands. i know that doesn't make it right, but what it tells me is that a bunch of folks are being fooled by vehicle and rv advertising. i think gm is the first to catch on to this problem, noting how they are promoting their 2020 2500 and 3500 class trucks(emphasis on payload).

GM is going even a step further and puts a max tongue/pin weight on their sticker now which is awesome. It works out to 15% of the tow limit for the trailer weight but also safely falls within the payload rating of the truck.

Ya, a LOT of people overburdening their tow vehicles out there. I hope they arrive at their destinations safely! There is also a lot of willful ignorance - but that crowd isn't likely to come here asking for truck advice, they think they already know all they need to know

This was a screen shot from a video looking at one of the new 2020 2500HD Duramax trucks. It is pretty great what GM is doing Note that the new 2500s have a higher than 10k GVWR which is fantastic as that was always knee capping those vehicles in the past - especially when equipped with the Diesel engines.

[xrated]

GM is going even a step further and puts a max tongue/pin weight on their sticker now which is awesome. It works out to 15% of the tow limit for the trailer weight but also safely falls within the payload rating of the truck.

Ya, a LOT of people overburdening their tow vehicles out there. I hope they arrive at their destinations safely! There is also a lot of willful ignorance - but that crowd isn't likely to come here asking for truck advice, they think they already know all they need to know

This was a screen shot from a video looking at one of the new 2020 2500HD Duramax trucks. It is pretty great what GM is doing Note that the new 2500s have a higher than 10k GVWR which is fantastic as that was always knee capping those vehicles in the past - especially when equipped with the Diesel engines.

I really don't see anything to get excited about with that sticker info. Yes, the payload rating is up for a diesel "3/4 T" truck....big deal, no different than buying a 1 Ton truck in the first place. The next issue is the Gooseneck trailer weight rating....16,600 lbs. That number might be OK for a gooseneck EQUIPENT trailer, but a 16,600 lb 5ver is going to be right at the payload capacity 3360 lbs. And how much over payload is the unsuspecting buyer going to be when they add in the weight of their hitch, passenger(s), toolbox full of tools/jacks,etc and everything else that goes in/on the truck? They are playing games to attract more sales......"Hey...look what we did...we got you covered. And trust me, there are many people out there that either are not aware of how to calculate the safe towing numbers for a truck/trailer combination, or they will just simply believe what they read, not knowing there can be a huge difference in the pin weight of a 16,600 lb gooseneck equipment trailer and a 16,600 5th wheel camping trailer!!

Everyone really just needs to educate themselves on how and why for the towing numbers when they decide to buy a trailer. Like I stated previously, I learned my lesson the hard way and I am thankful that there were many people willing to help me learn and understand what I was trying to achieve. That is one of the primary reasons I am almost always willing to help someone with the numbers if they need and/or want help. Just a pay it forward kind of thing.