Horrible payload number

[Overtaxed]

Thats basically what I did but it took a lot of work to find component ratings.

I had a few auto industry contacts and worked on the first generation super duty when I was an automotive engineer.

Basically, the 10.5 Sterling axle on 99 up 250s and SRW 350s is good for at least 8200 pounds. That's the lowest rated housing.

Brakes are identical to SRW350s and some years the DRW as well.

At least with Ford the "you don't have axles or brakes" argument 250 vs 350 is a sticker limit not an engineering limit.

Now Ram, there are significant differences 2500 to 3500m

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It's ridiculous. As you said, at least with the Ford 250/350SRW, it's pretty easy, nearly every single part is identical between the two other than an overload spring and, of course, a sticker (and a monster tax bill if you live in my state!). Add airbags to a 250, if anything, it'll be more capable than a 350SRW.

The limit, in most cases anyway, is really two things. Suspension and tires; both of which can be upgraded easily. I would never consider selling a 250 to get a 350 SRW (same model year), you'll wind up spending a lot of money and, IMHO, accomplish exactly nothing. Spend 500 bucks on bags, you'll be better off in every situation except for the dreaded "weight police" situations where they are checking stickers.

Honestly? It's not that hard. What can the tires take, what can the axle take, and what can the suspension take. Tires and suspension are easy upgrades. Axles, as you said, are generally way over the rating anyway, it's typically tire/rim limited, not axles.

The problem is, nobody knows what to upgrade to add capacity. In some cases it's easy, if you're RAWR is the sum of the ratings on your tires, it's probably the tires that are setting the limit. In other cases, it's much harder (especially since sometimes they don't actually put the tire rating X2, they put the tire rating X2 at some arbitrary assigned PSI (not max) in the tires).

The only reason, at least in Ford, the F250 exists is for states like SC where it costs ~1/2 as much to register as a 350. If you don't live in a state like that, I honestly cannot fathom why anyone would pick a 250 over a 350 SRW.

[luvmyrv]

It's ridiculous. As you said, at least with the Ford 250/350SRW, it's pretty easy, nearly every single part is identical between the two other than an overload spring and, of course, a sticker (and a monster tax bill if you live in my state!). Add airbags to a 250, if anything, it'll be more capable than a 350SRW.

The limit, in most cases anyway, is really two things. Suspension and tires; both of which can be upgraded easily. I would never consider selling a 250 to get a 350 SRW (same model year), you'll wind up spending a lot of money and, IMHO, accomplish exactly nothing. Spend 500 bucks on bags, you'll be better off in every situation except for the dreaded "weight police" situations where they are checking stickers.

Honestly? It's not that hard. What can the tires take, what can the axle take, and what can the suspension take. Tires and suspension are easy upgrades. Axles, as you said, are generally way over the rating anyway, it's typically tire/rim limited, not axles.

The problem is, nobody knows what to upgrade to add capacity. In some cases it's easy, if you're RAWR is the sum of the ratings on your tires, it's probably the tires that are setting the limit. In other cases, it's much harder (especially since sometimes they don't actually put the tire rating X2, they put the tire rating X2 at some arbitrary assigned PSI (not max) in the tires).

The only reason, at least in Ford, the F250 exists is for states like SC where it costs ~1/2 as much to register as a 350. If you don't live in a state like that, I honestly cannot fathom why anyone would pick a 250 over a 350 SRW.

Need a bit of clarification on your post. In one paragraph you say selling a 250 to get a 350 gets you nothing, but then in your last paragraph you say you cannot fathom why anyone would pick a 250 over a 350. Am I missing something?

[CX500T]

He is sayin the 250 exists mostly to appease certain localities cutoffs for registration, taxation or other things not related to the actual physical construction.

Prime example is at my job.. We have some airplanes, both Boeing and Airbus, that rated for a given max gross weight, others with a significantly lower gross weight, same model same parts, but in the case of some of the Boeings, it's a sticker that we asked for to lower the gross weight to get the 757 into some airports where it would be restricted by it's gross weight alone (even though ground pressure is less than a 737). In the case of the Airbus, it's a paper RESTRICTION, if we pay Airbus Industie $$MILLIONS PER HULL we are then allowed an additional 15 or 20 tons to be added to the maximum ramp, taxi and takeoff weights. No changes to the plane, FCC control laws, brakes, engines, nothing. Just pay Airbus their money and you are allowed to fly at a higher weight legally.

[Overtaxed]

Need a bit of clarification on your post. In one paragraph you say selling a 250 to get a 350 gets you nothing, but then in your last paragraph you say you cannot fathom why anyone would pick a 250 over a 350. Am I missing something?

Sorry, that wasn't overly clear. It's 2 different situations:

1) Already own a 250, buying a 350 to replace it (assuming SRW and same model year) is basically throwing thousands at a "sticker" that changes just about nothing in the truck. If you want to be safer, get airbags.
2) Buying a new truck today and intend to tow heavy with it, there's no reason to even consider a 250 UNLESS you happen to live in a state like mine (SC) that charges ~2X in taxes (thousand + extra per year, could be 10K+ extra in tax for a 350 vs a 250).

Simply put, with the exception of a few states (of which SC is one), there's no reason to ever consider a 250. Get a 350, you'll get the "sticker" and the difference in price is <1% on most configurations.

A 350 gets you a different sticker, no arguing that point. The value of that sticker for most people is exactly 0, but there are some situations where it could potentially matter. Those situations are rare, but why risk it?

Frankly, Ford should probably go to a lineup that's greatly simplified; 150, 350SRW, 450. And they probably would if not for a few states charging usurious levels to register a 350. The 350DRW is more debatable, but the 450 is almost all pros, very few cons, and like the 250-350SRW, the uplift in price is tiny.

Problem is, Ford sells a whole lot of 250's, so I'm sure they will never do what I suggested, but a derated (to the point where a 150 can carry more in some configs) HD pickup truck really shouldn't be a best seller.

[Grandesigner]

How do you find out if a state charges more for a F350?

[Overtaxed]

How do you find out if a state charges more for a F350?

I'm not aware of any universal way to do it. Here's the estimator for my area:

https://www.cherokeecountysctax.com/#/vcalc

A 450 is "Vehicle weight one ton and over". A 250 is a "passenger vehicle".


Here's some rough numbers (which do align with reality, because I've actually had both; assuming 80K as the value for both):

250: $1,784.96
450: $3,323.96

That's the yearly tax on the truck, my first year on the 450 was a bit over 3K. It does fall through time, but it'll always be ~2X as much for the 450 (or 350) vs a 250. Over the course of 5 years, it's likely close to a 10K difference in the taxes between a 250 and 450.

And now you know why you see so many 250's hauling triple axle Raptors (and all other manners of silliness) in SC.

[CX500T]

And where I used to live (base housing at NS Mayport) wouldn't allow you to keep a DRW truck at your house as it was "obviously a commercial vehicle" and made you keep it in the RV lot, a mile away, and you only had access 9-5 M-F.

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[MachWun]

According to GM, payload range for a 2500 is 3,614 to 3,900 lbs. My 2021 is in that range.

Moving to a 3500 adds another 800. When I bought my truck, there was not much difference between a 2500 and 3500 for payload nor tow. But cost about $8k more.

[Grandesigner]

I'm not aware of any universal way to do it. Here's the estimator for my area:

https://www.cherokeecountysctax.com/#/vcalc

A 450 is "Vehicle weight one ton and over". A 250 is a "passenger vehicle".


Here's some rough numbers (which do align with reality, because I've actually had both; assuming 80K as the value for both):

250: $1,784.96
450: $3,323.96

That's the yearly tax on the truck, my first year on the 450 was a bit over 3K. It does fall through time, but it'll always be ~2X as much for the 450 (or 350) vs a 250. Over the course of 5 years, it's likely close to a 10K difference in the taxes between a 250 and 450.

And now you know why you see so many 250's hauling triple axle Raptors (and all other manners of silliness) in SC.

I'll look for such a calculator in my state, thank you.

[Ken-d1]

Typo or not, the GMC website says that VIN is no longer available for purchase…


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