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  1. #1
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    Which converter to start with, AC or DC?

    The amount of information for lithium is insane. I have been searching and reading, but not really finding a good answer for my question. So here it goes:
    I am installing 2 new 100ah lithiums. My controller can be set to lithium for the solar charge. My converter/charger is not lithium capable. I understand that it will still charge the batteries, just not to their full capacity. My main reason for lithium is for boondocking, here and there. So, I am wondering if a best choice for me it to start with a DC to DC charger so that while moving from one spot to another, the batteries will get charged by the truck alternator. While on shore power I would not be so worried about charging all the way and my solar should take the batteries closer to full. But, if boondocking and moving to another spot without shore power the batteries would get a boost/charge from the truck. Am I thinking somewhat logically? or maybe I have missed a converter/charger option that can do both?
    At some point I will replace the AC converter/charger, but thinking maybe to start go with the DC to DC?
    Last edited by Puma1973; 03-17-2023 at 08:36 PM.
    2022 Solitude 390RK-R
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    Site Team Second Chance's Avatar
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    Unless GD has changed what they're installing, I think you have some terminology mixed up. The converter-charger charges the batteries from 120VAC shore power (and provides 12VDC for house systems in the process). An inverter makes 120VAC from 12VDC from your batteries when you're not plugged into shore power. A DC-to-DC charger would be used to provide some (usually minimal) charging current while on the road - but usually not a source to count on. Most folks rely on enough solar or a generator to recharge the batteries for boondocking purposes.
    @SolarPoweredRV can go into more detail for you if he's around...

    Rob
    U.S. Army Retired
    2012 F350 DRW CC LB Lariat PS 6.7
    2020 Solitude 310GK-R, MORryde IS, disc brakes,
    Sailun LRG tires, solar, DP windows, W/D
    (Previously in a Reflection 337RLS)
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  3. #3
    Rolling Along
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puma1973 View Post
    The amount of information for lithium is insane. I have been searching and reading, but not really finding a good answer for my question. So here it goes:
    I am installing 2 new 100ah lithiums. My controller can be set to lithium for the solar charge. My inverter/charger is not lithium capable. I understand that it will still charge the batteries, just not to their full capacity. My main reason for lithium is for boondocking, here and there. So, I am wondering if a best choice for me it to start with a DC to DC converter so that while moving from one spot to another, the batteries will get charged by the truck alternator. While on shore power I would not be so worried about charging all the way and my solar should take the batteries closer to full. But, if boondocking and moving to another spot without shore power the batteries would get a boost/charge from the truck. Am I thinking somewhat logically? or maybe I have missed a converter option that can do both?
    At some point I will replace the AC converter/charger, but thinking maybe to start go with the DC to DC?
    The answers to your questions depend on what you want to power and for how long. I added 560Ah of LiPO4 batteries, 600w of solar and am not going down the DC-DC charger route as I don't see it being practical for me. I can trickle charge the batteries with the truck if I want with the existing GM and trailer circuit. If my batteries get too low while boondocking (which is all we do by the way), I will fire up my generator and use my 120A converter/charger to top them off.
    40+ Year Camping Enthusiast--Living in CO
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puma1973 View Post
    The amount of information for lithium is insane. I have been searching and reading, but not really finding a good answer for my question. So here it goes:
    I am installing 2 new 100ah lithiums. My controller can be set to lithium for the solar charge. My inverter/charger is not lithium capable. I understand that it will still charge the batteries, just not to their full capacity. My main reason for lithium is for boondocking, here and there. So, I am wondering if a best choice for me it to start with a DC to DC converter so that while moving from one spot to another, the batteries will get charged by the truck alternator. While on shore power I would not be so worried about charging all the way and my solar should take the batteries closer to full. But, if boondocking and moving to another spot without shore power the batteries would get a boost/charge from the truck. Am I thinking somewhat logically? or maybe I have missed a converter option that can do both?
    At some point I will replace the AC converter/charger, but thinking maybe to start go with the DC to DC?
    Here is what I have learned through trial and error...
    The stock converter/charger will get my 200ah LiFePo4 up to about 72% - sitting next to my garage plugged into 30amp service with 12v refrigerator operating. I expected the stock 165w solar panel to keep the battery topped off but it doesn’t. If I turn off the refrigerator, solar gets the battery to 100%.

    I am not convinced that a solar upgrade is the best option for my needs, so I went with 60 amp DC-DC charger (I have a 440 amp alternator to support it) to charge while driving, and a lithium compatible converter/charger. Knowing what I know now, I would have started with the lithium compatible converter/charger.
    2022 Ram 2500 4x4, 6.7 Cummins, RamBox, Air Lift 5000 Ultimate Plus, B&W Companion
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    Site Sponsor SolarPoweredRV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puma1973 View Post
    The amount of information for lithium is insane. I have been searching and reading, but not really finding a good answer for my question. So here it goes:
    I am installing 2 new 100ah lithiums. My controller can be set to lithium for the solar charge. My inverter/charger is not lithium capable. I understand that it will still charge the batteries, just not to their full capacity. My main reason for lithium is for boondocking, here and there. So, I am wondering if a best choice for me it to start with a DC to DC converter so that while moving from one spot to another, the batteries will get charged by the truck alternator. While on shore power I would not be so worried about charging all the way and my solar should take the batteries closer to full. But, if boondocking and moving to another spot without shore power the batteries would get a boost/charge from the truck. Am I thinking somewhat logically? or maybe I have missed a converter option that can do both?
    At some point I will replace the AC converter/charger, but thinking maybe to start go with the DC to DC?

    Yes, all this can be a bit much when you first start looking into Lithium and Solar.

    Here is a thread that should simplify everything for you:

    Affordable-Solar-How-To-Design-and-Install-an-Affordable-Solar-System

    Be sure to follow the links in the thread, especially: "Installing a Solar System in Phases"

    Rob is right, the terms you are using are confusing us. Let me give you a couple of definitions and you can let us know which ones fit.

    Converter: This is the device installed by the OEM that "converts" 120 volts A/C into 12 volts DC power. it's job is to provide power to all 12v devices when you are plugged into Shore Power. Additionally, it charges up and/or keeps the batteries charged when you are plugged in.

    Solar Charge Controller: This is the device that "controls"/modulates the power from your Solar panels into voltage that can charge your batteries.

    Inverter: This device takes the 12v DC power coming from your batteries, and "inverts" it into 120v A/C that can power various appliances in your coach. Sometimes the OEM will install an Inverter in the coach that powers a few circuits inside the coach, most notably, the refrigerator circuit if you have a Residential refrigerator. These Inverters are usually provide 1,000 to 1,500 Watts of energy, rarely do they supply power to every outlet in the coach.

    Inverter/Charger: This is an Inverter that can also charge your batteries. These are usually 2,000 or 3,000 Watt Inverters that can supply 120v power to every outlet in the whole coach. Rarely are these ever installed by the OEM. Additionally, these have the capability to charge your batteries when you are plugged into shore power just like the OEM Converter. You need to remove the OEM Converter from the coach (or disconnect it) when you install an Inverter/Charger.

    DC to DC Converter: this device is usually installed on the Tow Vehicle and is used to provide a higher current charge from the Tow Vehicle to the camper than you can get from the normal 7-pin connector. These are usually installed to provide a better charge from the Tow Vehicle to the camper whenever you have a large Lithium battery bank in the camper. The DC to DC Converter also protects the truck's electrical system from being damaged from the high energy demands of the Lithium batteries installed in the camper.

    Personally, I ran for years relying only on Solar and the Inverter/Charger for all my charging, I actually disconnected the 7-pin charging capability from the truck. Only recently did I decide to install a DC to DC Converter on my truck.
    David and Peggy
    2019 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.7L Diesel, Dually, Long Bed
    Running with 20k Reese Goosebox (Love It) and Ford Factory "Puck" system.
    Stopping with 8,000 lb Disc Brakes and Titan Hydraulic over Electric Brakes system.
    Powering all this fun with 1200 Watts of Solar, two Tesla, Model S, battery modules, 24 volt Victron Inverter.
    2018 Solitude 310 GK

  6. #6
    Site Sponsor ExNihilo's Avatar
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    Review the above terms and articles and you will be in fine shape. Will Prowse’s DIY Solar on Amazon may be particularly useful if you’re really new to the concepts. I built my system off Dave’s thread and learned the fundamentals from Prowse. Electric was pretty much Greek to me.
    Your in good company-

    Enjoy the Journey!
    Ex-Nihilo
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Second Chance View Post
    Unless GD has changed what they're installing, I think you have some terminology mixed up. The converter-charger charges the batteries from 120VAC shore power (and provides 12VDC for house systems in the process). An inverter makes 120VAC from 12VDC from your batteries when you're not plugged into shore power. A DC-to-DC charger would be used to provide some (usually minimal) charging current while on the road - but usually not a source to count on. Most folks rely on enough solar or a generator to recharge the batteries for boondocking purposes.
    @SolarPoweredRV can go into more detail for you if he's around...

    Rob
    You are correct. I mixed up some wording. I edited original post. Hopefully correctly.
    2022 Solitude 390RK-R
    2021 Chevy 3500HD Duramax 4x4 Long Bed DRW

  8. #8
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    Thanks to all for the replies so far. I did mess up my terminology and edited post to hopefully correct. It all made sense to me when I typed it.
    I will go thru Dave's link. With the replies so far, I think I will probably skip the DC-DC charger for now. I was not thinking, I also have a generator I can start up and put a charge to the batteries also.
    I will go down the new converter/charger that is compatible with lithium path. While I have your eyes, since I currently have the WFCO WF-9855, does that mean I should stick with a 55amp unit? Not planning on going crazy with solar. Maybe, once I read Dave's info this will be answered, but until then I thought I would throw that out there.
    Again, thanks to all so far.
    2022 Solitude 390RK-R
    2021 Chevy 3500HD Duramax 4x4 Long Bed DRW

  9. #9
    Site Team Soundsailor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puma1973 View Post
    Thanks to all for the replies so far. I did mess up my terminology and edited post to hopefully correct. It all made sense to me when I typed it.
    I will go thru Dave's link. With the replies so far, I think I will probably skip the DC-DC charger for now. I was not thinking, I also have a generator I can start up and put a charge to the batteries also.
    I will go down the new converter/charger that is compatible with lithium path. While I have your eyes, since I currently have the WFCO WF-9855, does that mean I should stick with a 55amp unit? Not planning on going crazy with solar. Maybe, once I read Dave's info this will be answered, but until then I thought I would throw that out there.
    Again, thanks to all so far.
    Yes, adding a lithium-aware charger/converter makes a lot of sense. I don't think the WFCO WF-9855 falls into that category. The WFCO 9855-LIS is set up for Lithium and has a switch rather than auto-sensing (I can't recommend the AD model). Sticking with the same amperage means you won't need to change the cabling making the switch much easier.
    Stephen and Judy
    2022 Reflection 150 Series 260RD (Stella)
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  10. #10
    Site Sponsor SolarPoweredRV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soundsailor View Post
    Yes, adding a lithium-aware charger/converter makes a lot of sense. I don't think the WFCO WF-9855 falls into that category. The WFCO 9855-LIS is set up for Lithium and has a switch rather than auto-sensing (I can't recommend the AD model). Sticking with the same amperage means you won't need to change the cabling making the switch much easier.
    I recommend the Progressive Dynamics brand with about 90 amps, or more.

    OEMs do not install the highest amp Converters, they install the lowest cost solution for them. Additionally, your new Lithium batteries are capable of charging very fast, so why would you want to extend your charging time with a lower amperage Converter. If you are spending the money anyway, make it better.
    David and Peggy
    2019 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.7L Diesel, Dually, Long Bed
    Running with 20k Reese Goosebox (Love It) and Ford Factory "Puck" system.
    Stopping with 8,000 lb Disc Brakes and Titan Hydraulic over Electric Brakes system.
    Powering all this fun with 1200 Watts of Solar, two Tesla, Model S, battery modules, 24 volt Victron Inverter.
    2018 Solitude 310 GK

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