someone pls tell me i made an arithmetic error - cargo capacity problem

**Calbar** · 10-14-2019, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by charley patton

rob, this is one of the things that confused me from earlier posts, re: "J" spec. i thought fuel and people needed to be added to the payload calculation. are you saying in effect, that i have added the weight of two people and fuel unnecessarily? if so, that takes care of my over capacity problem.

Yes the "J" Standard takes into account a fuel tank of fuel and 2 150 lb people for the towing capacity. Payload is based on total weight of the vehicle so when you load up the truck it cannot be over the number in the door jamb in your case 2200 lbs payload or total weight of 10,000 lbs. Best to weigh everything like a number of posters have stated.

Rob

**Jim&Ang** · 10-14-2019, 01:22 PM

Our 2018 Ram 2500 diesel had similar numbers. With my wife and the bare minimum of stuff in the truck other than full fuel, it was 8075 lbs on the CAT scale. With a brand new 2018 303RLS, lightly loaded at 10445 lbs (by CAT scale), we had 2025 lbs pin weight, making the truck overweight by 100 lbs. 20 to 25% of the trailer weight seems to be a more typical number for pin weight with fifth wheels. I felt the truck handled it fine, and we were well under the axle and wheel ratings on the truck. But it still bothered me, and I wanted to feel comfortable with taking my granddaughter and more gear, so we moved on to a 3500 when I had the chance.

Your pin weight estimate seems low to me, I recommend going to a CAT scale and finding out for sure, you may be over by more than you think.

The truck payload vs. towing capacity game isn't only a Ram problem, nor is it limited to the diesel 2500 model, although the 250s/2500s suffer the most from payload limitations with a Diesel engine. The towing capacity numbers seem pretty bogus to me, because Ram also says the payload and towing capacity are mutually exclusive. Since you will never have 0 pin/hitch weight, or an empty truck, I don't see how you could ever legitimately pull the stated towing capacity in any case.

**xrated** · 10-14-2019, 01:42 PM

Almost every 5 th wheel camping type trailer will put at least 20% of the trailer weight on the truck...known as pin weight. Your 11,160 comes out to 2235 lbs of pin weight. Plus your hitch weight of 280 (seems a little high on that number) makes it total at 2515 lbs.

Now, the reason that they can advertise 17,000 of towing capacity. Keep in mind, there are several weight capacities to look at, and towing capacity is really doesn't even enter into the division when tow a 5th wheel camping trailer! WHY?....because 99.9 percent of the time, you will run out of payload capacity long before you reach towing capacity....based on the 20% of the trailer weight. Try running that 17,000 lb number and calculating the pin weight for it....3400 lbs.

So let's look at a utility/flatbed trailer instead. Trailer and load equals 17,000 lbs, yet the pin weight is let's say 2200 lbs. And the reason is, the trailer's load is placed more towards the back of the trailer. You don't get to pick where the load is placed with a 5ver camping trailer, it is what it is. With the equipment trailer, you move that Bobcat, or small Dozer towards the rear of the trailer to lighten up the pin weight.

No where in any of the truck manufacturer's brochures will you find them stating that the towing capacity rating is for 5TH WHEEL CAMPING TRAILERS, they simply say trailers. So technically, they aren't lying, you can tow up to 17,000 lbs of trailer....just not 17,000 lb of 5ver camping trailer...at least not without being overloaded on payload, GVWR, probably RAWR, and maybe tire load capacity rating. All of the truck's weight capacities, payload, GVWR, RAWR, FAWR, GCVWR, and Tire Load Capacity have to be considered and every single vehicle manufacturer will CLEARLY state, over and over, NONE of those capacities should ever be exceeded. Yours, is a common mistake, only considering the towing capacity and not looking at the others I mentioned. 17,000 lbs of towing capacity....yep, good to go! Not so much, when all the others are examined also.

**charley patton** · 10-14-2019, 01:42 PM

yea, it's for sure confusing. the gvwr of my trailer is well within limits, so is the gcwr. it's the tongue weight and my 300 lb hitch that's causing all the problems.

air bags or stiffer shocks wouldn't alleviate my problem, would it? again the stance of the truck and trailer look great.

**Txfivver** · 10-14-2019, 01:48 PM

Ford's payload rating includes a full tank of fuel and a skinny 150 pound driver, not sure about Ram

**xrated** · 10-14-2019, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by charley patton

yea, it's for sure confusing. the gvwr of my trailer is well within limits, so is the gcwr. it's the tongue weight and my 300 lb hitch that's causing all the problems.

air bags or stiffer shocks wouldn't alleviate my problem, would it? again the stance of the truck and trailer look great.

Actually...NO... the GVWR of your trailer 12,000 lbs, rounded up 5 lbs) will put you over payload by itself......2400 lbs of pin weight...maybe a bit more.

**xrated** · 10-14-2019, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by charley patton

yea, it's for sure confusing. the gvwr of my trailer is well within limits, so is the gcwr. it's the tongue weight and my 300 lb hitch that's causing all the problems.

air bags or stiffer shocks wouldn't alleviate my problem, would it? again the stance of the truck and trailer look great.

Actually...NO... the GVWR of your trailer 12,000 lbs, rounded up 5 lbs) will put you over payload by itself......2400 lbs of pin weight...maybe a bit more. That, and the hitch and you'll be over payload and GVWR of the truck by 500 lbs

And in answer to your question about airbags, no, they don't give you any additional payload. Basically, even if the trailer was totally empty and the weight of your 5ver hitch, would put you right at or slightly over payload on the truck......sorry.

**charley patton** · 10-14-2019, 01:58 PM

gotcha. yea, i'm gonna weigh it if i can figure out who around here can do that. the nearest cat scale is over an hour away from me, so i might wait until our next trip.

i am one of, i bet, many thousands of people who hear 800 lb of torque and 17,600 lb of towing capacity and think i'm good to go. it's my fault in the end, of course, but i wish i would have dealt with truck and rv dealers who would have alerted me to this issue before i purchased the truck. maybe they don't know anymore than i do.

**xrated** · 10-14-2019, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by charley patton

gotcha. yea, i'm gonna weigh it if i can figure out who around here can do that. the nearest cat scale is over an hour away from me, so i might wait until our next trip.

i am one of, i bet, many thousands of people who hear 800 lb of torque and 17,600 lb of towing capacity and think i'm good to go. it's my fault in the end, of course, but i wish i would have dealt with truck and rv dealers who would have alerted me to this issue before i purchased the truck. maybe they don't know anymore than i do.

I would say you are correct about many of them not knowing. And although it is no consolation to you, many of us have been in the same boat. Some of us admit it, others don't. My first diesel truck was a Ford F250. I knew nothing of towing heavy trailers and just figured..."Hey, 3/4 Ton truck, diesel power, I can buy and tow pretty much anything I want." Boy, was I WRONG. That truck had a payload number of.....2148 lbs....so I feel your pain.

**Calbar** · 10-14-2019, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by charley patton

gotcha. yea, i'm gonna weigh it if i can figure out who around here can do that. the nearest cat scale is over an hour away from me, so i might wait until our next trip.

i am one of, i bet, many thousands of people who hear 800 lb of torque and 17,600 lb of towing capacity and think i'm good to go. it's my fault in the end, of course, but i wish i would have dealt with truck and rv dealers who would have alerted me to this issue before i purchased the truck. maybe they don't know anymore than i do.

Many of us have done this at one time or another and many of the truck/rv dealer either don't understand it or just want to sell you what you are looking at or want. Many don't educate their customers. After RVing for 15 years now and learning so much on forums like this there are still things I learn and mistakes I make.

Like others have said best to weigh the truck and trailer and then make an informed decision. I have been comfortable as long as I have not been over the axle ratings and GCVWR even if over 300 lbs on payload but that in the end is really only a decision that you can make after you have weighed the combo and see your actual numbers.

Rob