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06-29-2017, 11:14 AM #1
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Replacement Springs - Rockwell American
I saw in another post https://www.mygrandrv.com/fo...nd-axles/page4
that Rockwell American makes trailer springs in Texas.
But it seems they skip over the 2600 lb springs a lot of us have.
Wondering if had to replace springs later, if the 2900 lb 4352-29 they offer would be a bit more than should use b/c of extra force having to be absorbed by the tires and frame vs the 2600 lb springs.
Gene- Gene
Kim & Gene
2015 Reflection 317RST
2017 Ram 3500 CC LB 4x2 6.7 CTD AISIN 3.73 DRW Auto Level Rear Air, BD3, Prodigy P3, Aux Tank
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06-29-2017, 12:34 PM #2
Hi Gene,
I think you are on the right track with the logic that stronger springs are not necessarily better because this forces the tires and frame to absorb more of the impact/compression loads. Pat Wardell and I have done a lot of back-and-forth measuring and changing of springs trying to get our 303s (which are much heavier on the left side than on the right) to ride level side-to-side.
I even built a fixture to compress the different springs, using my Sherline scale to measure loads at different spring arch heights.
WRT the Rockwell chart, I don't think you could measure the difference between a 2600 lb spring and a 2500 lb spring. This would be something less than 1/32" at rated load arch height.
It would be interesting to confirm where these springs are actually made. All the springs that I have seen, regardless of who's name is on them, are made in China. I did buy hub seals a while back from Rockwell American . . . and found them to be exactly . . . and I mean exactly the same as the OE seals used by LCI.
RobCate & Rob
2015 Reflection 303RLS
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06-29-2017, 02:02 PM #3
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Hi Gene and Rob,
I think I made the statement that American Rockwell springs were American made. I based that off this web page: http://www.rockwellamerican.com/manu...-manufacturing
I interpret that page as they make them in US. My personal option is that American spring steel is better than China. They sell other products that are made by others. They even sell stuff by others that sell springs like Universal Group and TRP... (maybe they make their springs, that's a stretch, but???).
Gene, If you were t look at the different manufacture specs for spring they all seem to be a little different an the will also round up or down. I think the main thing to do is look at the P/N like SW4 etc.
PatPat&Marlene Gyrogearloose - 2010 Itasca Meridian 34y - 6.7 w/Allison 6spd - Jeep Wrangler Rubicon - previous Reflection 303RLS
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06-29-2017, 02:02 PM #4
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Yeah Rob, hard to know actual source of base materials now days. If I have a choice for precision/strength I'd like the option of "not china".
Might not be possible anymore. Got a set of timken bearings in for my pickup, outer was USA, inner was Poland.
I'd guess my measurement on springs would be rubbing on wheel well or a spring that didn't have same look as the rest of the trailer's springs.
Gene- Gene
Kim & Gene
2015 Reflection 317RST
2017 Ram 3500 CC LB 4x2 6.7 CTD AISIN 3.73 DRW Auto Level Rear Air, BD3, Prodigy P3, Aux Tank
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06-29-2017, 02:07 PM #5
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Pat,
I saw American Rockwell has a plant in Texas, so assumed they are actually making the springs there.
2500 lb SW4 like Rob says is pretty close to 2600 lb.
I wouldn't want to put something on that lowered a rating more I was supposed to.
Gene- Gene
Kim & Gene
2015 Reflection 317RST
2017 Ram 3500 CC LB 4x2 6.7 CTD AISIN 3.73 DRW Auto Level Rear Air, BD3, Prodigy P3, Aux Tank
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06-29-2017, 02:27 PM #6
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Paul,
My springs looked actually pretty flat when loaded and also tires were rubbing on drivers side with body roll before 3k upgrade on drivers side. Springs will flatten if taken past a certain point of flex, like extreme bumps or being loaded to near max and normal bumps. Robs springs on drivers were far worse than mine on drivers side.
There are a couple values for measuring trailer leaf spring. 1) Unloaded Arch (the spring arch with no load) and Loaded Arch (the arch with rated spring load on it,this is how Lippert does theirs). Keep in mind that different spring sizes will have different Unloaded and Loaded Arch vales. With Unloaded Arch and Loaded Arch you can calculate spring rate. I had to mix and match different manufacturer info to try to put the picture together. I think Rob has some pretty pictures of Arch and measurement?
Hope this helps,
PatPat&Marlene Gyrogearloose - 2010 Itasca Meridian 34y - 6.7 w/Allison 6spd - Jeep Wrangler Rubicon - previous Reflection 303RLS
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07-02-2017, 05:55 AM #7
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Let me preface this story with the fact that we do not run overweight and in fact, aren't even close. I have weigh tickets to bear that out.
On a weekend in early June the curbside rear leaf spring on our Momentum broke and took our new EOH brake system with it. Amazing thing is I didn't hear it or feel it let go. Good thing the TPMS alerted us because that tire was running hot. Due the spring tip whacking the hose bracket, the hose had made contact with the inner sidewall which wore through the spiral wrap armor on the brake hose and then through the hose wall itself until braking system integrity was lost. Some piece of the brake or suspension system had also scored the inner sidewall. It was probably 20 miles back laying on the highway. Our RV sat disabled for the next three days until Adventure RV in Cheyenne (90 miles away) could get a spring from Lippert and send a crew up to change it out. While waiting on that, I was able to go fetch some left over hoses and bits to repair the brakes. As an aside, GD stepped up when we called them first thing Monday even though our suspension warranty had expired 19 days earlier, GD had Lippert send a new spring out to the dealer overnight. I am so-oh glad we have a Grand Design because they took care of us when Good Sam roadside assistance was an epic fail (another story, another time).
The dealer techs pointed out that the other springs were looking flat and recommended we see if GD would replace them also. Pictures were taken of the springs and tire damage. I'm still working with the dealer and GD to see if I can get that G614 tire replaced. In the meantime, I was so disappointed in the apparent inferior (in my opinion) metallurgy of the Lippert springs that I've replaced all four with new ones from etrailer. I'll keep the one they installed for a spare.
FWIW, this is a 7K axle and the unit was built in late April 2016.
Steve and Cheryl
2017 Momentum 328M w/Dual Pane Windows and 3rd A/C. Aftermarket mods: Titan EOH Disc Brakes, MORryde IS suspension and Reese 5th Airborne Sidewinder pin box
2014 Ram 3500 Longhorn Megacab 4x4 DRW with 6.7 HD Cummins Turbo Diesel, AISIN trans, 3.73 axles and a Reese 20K puck mount hitch
Call sign: AAØSB, Class: Extra
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07-02-2017, 09:09 AM #8
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Steve,
Glad you're all OK
Sorry that happened at all.
It does appear to me the steel in these springs fatigue too easily.
TPMS sure showed its value with the temperature warning.
GeneLast edited by gbkims; 07-02-2017 at 09:18 AM. Reason: TPMS
- Gene
Kim & Gene
2015 Reflection 317RST
2017 Ram 3500 CC LB 4x2 6.7 CTD AISIN 3.73 DRW Auto Level Rear Air, BD3, Prodigy P3, Aux Tank
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07-02-2017, 09:54 AM #9
Measuring Spring Arch Height
I thought I had posted this a while ago . . . but can't find it. Anyway . . . this is the process that Pat & I came up with for measuring loaded spring arch height.
This should be done on reasonably level ground and ideally with the forward weight on the pin (TV or tripod) rather than the landing gear since the landing gear carries more weight than that the pin. But . . . it is more important to get the equalizer level to indicate an even weight balance between the axles, so if you need to use up/down with the landing gear to create this balance, do that.
As an aside, if you tow nose high on the trailer, measuring the difference in loaded spring arch height on the front axle compared to the rear axle will give you an indication of how much more weight the rear axle is carrying when you are towing.
Difference in loaded arch height side-to-side is a measure of the weight imbalance and ride height difference that Pat and I have been working on to increase the spring strength on the heavier left side of our Reflection 303s to get them to ride level side-to-side when towing.Cate & Rob
2015 Reflection 303RLS
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07-02-2017, 10:23 AM #10
Rob - Do you mind if I put a copy of that pdf in the reference library?
Jim
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