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  1. #1
    Left The Driveway
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    Question: Chevy 2500HD towing a 303RLS - Tow Rating?

    Hello Everyone! I am a first time poster to this forum and really thinking about purchasing a 2018 Reflection 303RLS. However, in trying to understand what vehicle I would need to properly and legally pull this trailer it appears that this is not as simple answer as I would have thought. There is lots of information that implies that although the truck we are considering can handle pulling the 5th wheel, in reality, this vehicle is not to be used to pull this weight. For example, some of the web-based towing calculators imply that this truck could only pull a 9,400lb 5th wheel (http://fifthwheelst.com/rvtc_calculator.html). Seems that the main problem is related to the pin weight and available payload (using 20% pin weight).

    Wonder if anyone might be able to assist me in:
    • properly defining the formula(s) that we should used to complete this assessment? Just can't seem to find the key formulas on-line - which is shocking
    • understanding if the Society Of Automotive Engineers (SAE) guidelines (which have been quoted by several sites) are only guidelines? What law would a weigh master use to write a ticket if deemed you were outside the towing ratings
    • should we buy this truck to pull the 303RLS? Odd that a 3/4 ton truck could not pull a 5th wheel this size.....


    303RLS Trailer Details (Manufactures Specs)
    - GVWR: 11,995

    Vehicle Details (Manufactures Specs)
    - 6.6 Diesel Crew Cab 4x4 Standard Box
    - Max 5th Wheel Towing: 13,500
    - GCWR: 25,300
    - GVWR: 10,000
    - Curb Weight: 7,457
    - RGAWR: 6,200
    - Payload: 2,255 (yellow label from the truck)
    - Extra Weight: 600 (includes passengers, hitch, etc.)

    Thank you in advance for any assistance

    Mark
    Last edited by mmazur7973; 08-29-2017 at 08:50 PM.
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    2018 Reflection 303RLS
    2018 Chevrolet Silverado 3500HD Duramax

  2. #2
    Long Hauler Canyonlight's Avatar
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    We've got the combination you are talking about (fourth season now) and it is a great setup. Many of us here and around the continent have a similar combination. Yes we can be over the magic payload #for the 10K 2500HD but we are way under the springs and tires by several hundred #s even when very heavily loaded. With the heavy pin weights of the loaded RVs these days on many floorplans combined with a modest load in the truck, staying under payload #s is a challenge even for many 3500 SRW P/Us.

    The engineers and techical folks on the forum will most certainly share feedback on your more technical questions.

    Dan
    Dan & Carol
    2014 303RLS Reflection #185 (10/2013 build)
    2012 Silverado LTZ Crew Duramax 2500HD
    2700/16K Pullrite Superglide

  3. #3
    Site Team Second Chance's Avatar
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    As Dan alluded to, it's not so much what the truck can pull, but rather a function of payload and pin weight. You don't really know where you stand until you actually weigh the truck and know/estimate the loaded pin weight of the trailer. Here's what I advise people to do:

    1) Load your truck up with full fuel, all passengers with their "stuff" and the hitch if you have one (if not, add 50# to the rear axle scale weights for an Andersen hitch and about 200# for the average standard fifth wheel hitch). Head to the nearest CAT scales and get separate front (steer) and rear (drive) axle weights.

    2) Subtract the total scale weight from the GVWR on the truck's door sticker to get your actual available payload; subtract the rear (drive) axle weight from the GVWRR on the door sticker to get the actual rear axle capacity left over.

    3) To be safe, never go over the available rear axle capacity - and certainly do not exceed the max load capacity for the rear tires.

    4) If you do not yet have the trailer, use 22% of the GVWR on the weight and tire sticker on the side of the trailer for an estimated loaded pin weight. NEVER use the published empty weights for the trailer or pin - they do not include things like propane, waste water (the fresh water tanks on the Reflections are over the axles) or anything you load in the basement, bedroom, etc. My calculations on the 303 indicate a fully loaded pin weight of 2,638#. You will likely be under that since you're not full-timing. The GVWR on our 337 is 13,995 and our loaded pin weight (full-timing) is usually around 3,100#.

    We pulled our first 12,500 miles with a 2013 Sierra 2500HD D/A 2WD (4WD reduces the payload a bit because of the weight of the transfer case and front drive axle) and we were about 100 lbs. over the rear axle capacities for the truck at 3,100 lbs. pin weight. With some Timbrens and Bilstein shocks, everything handled and stopped well (when the trailer brakes were working - but GD has that issue resolved now). Heavy cross-winds, bad roads, and the fact that we're full-timing are what motivated us to move up to a 1-ton DRW when we had the chance. You should be fine with your truck and the 303 - but get the numbers to be sure.

    Rob
    U.S. Army Retired
    2012 F350 DRW CC LB Lariat PS 6.7
    2020 Solitude 310GK-R, MORryde IS, disc brakes,
    Sailun LRG tires, solar, DP windows, W/D
    (Previously in a Reflection 337RLS)
    Full time since 08/2015

  4. #4
    Seasoned Camper jeffdawgfan's Avatar
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    You will be fine pulling a 303RLS with your 2500........
    2017 Reflection 303 RLS
    TV 2017 Nissan Titan XD CC Diesel 4x4

  5. #5
    Big Traveler CWSWine's Avatar
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    I think Second Chance said it very well. With a dry pin weigh of 1685 and packed ready to camp you going to be north of 2,000 pounds ready to camp pin weight. By the time you put hitch in and add passengers and stuff in the truck you going to over GVWR and close to being over your GVAWR. Weights are listed on your "Federal Compliance Sticker" (silver sticker) on your drivers door jam. It sounds like you are truck shopping and if you haven't bought the truck yet I would look at the F350/3500HD series trucks. Second chance also pointed out that most GD Reflections and Solitudes run about 22 to 23 percent of ready to camp weight on the pin.

    Here is what towing planner says about the 303... http://http://www.towingplanner.com/...5&lw=10765&a=3

    This is what tow planner says a truck with a payload of 2255 can handle without exceeding it's GVWR http://www.towingplanner.com/Calcula...0&hw=150&ct=FW

  6. #6
    Seasoned Camper
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    Have the same truck, with a payload sticker just of 2,400. Ran it over the CAT scales last month loaded as I would be on a camping trip - Me, wife, son, full tank, tools in box, etc. Two things shocked me - first (and the head scratcher) was I was inside of 200# of max front axle capacity, and second was the realization that I didn't have enough payload left for my kingpin weight (even at the lighter "marketed" weight GD lists at). Even though my duramax will tow it like nobody's business... I didn't feel comfortable with those numbers. I now have an F350 on order which was a hard decision given I have been a GM customer for last 4 trucks (2 were Duramax).
    2022 Momentum 351M-R
    2019 Ford F450 Platinum CC 6.7L Powerstroke FX4; Truck Covers USA American Work Tonneau; B&W 25K hitch; Airlift 5000 Ultimate+ w/WirelessAir; ZRoadZ back-up lamps
    Gone: 2018 Reflection 28BH; 2017 Ford F350 Platinum CCSB 6.7L Powerstroke FX4; 2015 GMC Denali 2500HD CCSB Dmax
    Gone but still in the family: 2004.5 Chev 2500HD CCSB LTZ Dmax

  7. #7
    Site Team Second Chance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brother_Bluto View Post
    Have the same truck, with a payload sticker just of 2,400. Ran it over the CAT scales last month loaded as I would be on a camping trip - Me, wife, son, full tank, tools in box, etc. Two things shocked me - first (and the head scratcher) was I was inside of 200# of max front axle capacity, and second was the realization that I didn't have enough payload left for my kingpin weight (even at the lighter "marketed" weight GD lists at). Even though my duramax will tow it like nobody's business... I didn't feel comfortable with those numbers. I now have an F350 on order which was a hard decision given I have been a GM customer for last 4 trucks (2 were Duramax).
    It's a quandary... some "truck guys" will tell you that there is little difference (other than perhaps one overload spring) between the 3/4- and 1-ton trucks from the same manufacturer and that the differences in stated capacities are largely to get around taxes and commercial registration in some states. Others will talk about full-floating rear axles on the 1-tons and semi-floating on the 3/4-tons, etc. In my opinion, the tire loading capacities are the red line (and the engineers usually specify wheels and tires that are only a couple of hundred pounds above the rear axle capacity) and the rest is how comfortable you are with handling in unexpected situations. The facts are that any modern 3/4-ton diesel will pull a house off its foundation - you just can't put the weight of the house over the rear axle.

    The term "legal" rarely, if ever, comes into play with private, non-commercial vehicles. The state departments of transportation will go over commercial vehicles with a fine-toothed comb - even to the point of checking axles. They don't have the inclination nor the manpower to mess around with us RVers towing with class 2 and 3 trucks. Your state DPS, however, is another story if your state happens to require a Class A Exempt driver's license for rigs exceeding the state's weight cut-off(s) for a Class C/regular driver's license.

    Rob
    U.S. Army Retired
    2012 F350 DRW CC LB Lariat PS 6.7
    2020 Solitude 310GK-R, MORryde IS, disc brakes,
    Sailun LRG tires, solar, DP windows, W/D
    (Previously in a Reflection 337RLS)
    Full time since 08/2015

  8. #8
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    Just go for it. You will be fine.

    If the truck hasn't been purchased, go with a 3500 single rear wheel. If you think you'll ever trade up to a full size unit like a Solitude, go duallie.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brother_Bluto View Post
    Have the same truck, with a payload sticker just of 2,400. Ran it over the CAT scales last month loaded as I would be on a camping trip - Me, wife, son, full tank, tools in box, etc. Two things shocked me - first (and the head scratcher) was I was inside of 200# of max front axle capacity, and second was the realization that I didn't have enough payload left for my kingpin weight (even at the lighter "marketed" weight GD lists at). Even though my duramax will tow it like nobody's business... I didn't feel comfortable with those numbers. I now have an F350 on order which was a hard decision given I have been a GM customer for last 4 trucks (2 were Duramax).

    Why are you switching to a Ford?
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    2018 Reflection 303RLS
    2018 Chevrolet Silverado 3500HD Duramax

  10. #10
    Seasoned Camper
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmazur7973 View Post
    Why are you switching to a Ford?
    I like my 2015 2500HD Denali, and I loved my 2004 2500HD LT (outside of the tire issue). The Duramax/Allison will pull a house and will continue to tout how good that combination is and has never let me down. In 150K miles, the only thing I replaced in the 2004 was an oxygen sensor. My brother is now driving the 04 now and the 15 has been problem free this far. I wanted to give all three a fair shake in my look for a 1-ton. Have friends with Fords & Rams and all have all been happy and without issue on their Powerstrokes & Cummins. A lot of my decision to make the switch had to do with the creature comforts & electronics. I feel GM is behind in these areas and won't likely see any improvement until the 2019 model year or even later. My test drive of the Ford sealed the deal - the 2017 Superduty is a beast and a home run in the cab (buying a Platinum).

    Some areas that bugged me with GM - I have very been very disappointed in the 2015 headlamps - if it is raining and dark... you can't see 5 feet in front of you. I fail to understand why GM designed the cooled front seats to blow hot air on the knees of the person in the back seat. Air movement in the backseat is also lacking - they need to go back to having vents on the console like my 04 had. The 15 Allison 6-sp shifts rough IMO where my 04 5-sp Allson shifted smooth as butter. GM also needs to follow Ford & Ram by putting real headrests in the backseat so an adult's head isn't constantly hitting the glass. I am now starting to get the same sculpting on the tires (and vibration around 50mph) that plagued my 2004. After prematurely going through 3 sets of goodyear tires on the 04, I switched to Michelin and seemed to slow down the problem but didn't go away - dealers couldn't find anything wrong.


    The Ford dealer I ordered through offers a limited lifetime warranty on the powertrain that can be used on the road at any certified mechanic (seems like a big plus). Stayed with the SRW SB for various reasons. Bottom line - I was treated right, got what I think is a great price as well as an excellent trade-in value.
    2022 Momentum 351M-R
    2019 Ford F450 Platinum CC 6.7L Powerstroke FX4; Truck Covers USA American Work Tonneau; B&W 25K hitch; Airlift 5000 Ultimate+ w/WirelessAir; ZRoadZ back-up lamps
    Gone: 2018 Reflection 28BH; 2017 Ford F350 Platinum CCSB 6.7L Powerstroke FX4; 2015 GMC Denali 2500HD CCSB Dmax
    Gone but still in the family: 2004.5 Chev 2500HD CCSB LTZ Dmax

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