NON Commercial Driver License

[geotex1]

I recently decided to move up to a class a motor home a s discovered the non commercial class a or b license requirement in Kansas. The thing that is baffling me is I’ve been to 4 different RV dealers in the Wichita area and they all said no special license is required. Finally today I just whipped out my phone while at a dealer and showed them the requirements. I’ve also inquired at my local dmv and they said the same thing. The thing that baffles me is the lack of knowledge from both the dealers selling these rigs and lack of knowledge at the dmv. And according to an earlier post it’s not an isolated issue.

There is also a pretty significant lack of information online about what I need to do to prepare for a change from class c to presumably a class A non commercial since most diesel class a motor homes are well above the 26000 lb GRWV and I’d like to tow a vehicle behind the RV. If I understand correctly I’d need a class B non commercial license to operate a vehicle over 26000 lbs GRWV and a class A to tow another vehicle behind it.

Hopefully someone here can educate me to if I’m correct in my understanding of kansas law pertaining to this situation and where I might be able to get the proper information to prepare for any written and driving tests I need. I’ve already spent several hours looking online and asking local dmv and law enforcement and having discussions with RV salesmen. I’m sure not going to make an investment on a expensive RV until I’m sure I can legally operate it. Thanks

Welcome! I cannot answer your Kansas-specific question with authority, but I can say your experience is no different than here in PA. This State also requires non-commercial Class A or B licensing where applicable, many dealers do not know the requirements (some just the opposite and very knowledgeable), and most DMV employees have no idea these even exist! Here they make it a challenge to obtain as well, but they're getting much better.

That said, and in general, whether or not you need a non-commercial A or B generally depends on the what you're going to tow behind. Most of the time the criteria is weight, and often it is that an A is needed towing over 10,000 pounds. However, some States also have length in the mix.

[Azlin75]

@geotex1 I think it would probably be in my best interest to opt for the non commercial class a since it’s possible I could eventually move into one of the larger 5th wheel campers or need to haul something for my father in laws farm which if it’s over 150 miles and over 10000lbs would require the non commercial class A in Kansas from further reading. However I still can’t seem to find the actual booklet online for non commercial class a/b license however there are plenty of links to class c class m and CDL manuals for Kansas. Plus if I have the class A non commercial license I can operate basically anything that doesn’t fall into the CDL category.

[geotex1]

@geotex1 I think it would probably be in my best interest to opt for the non commercial class a since it’s possible I could eventually move into one of the larger 5th wheel campers or need to haul something for my father in laws farm which if it’s over 150 miles and over 10000lbs would require the non commercial class A in Kansas from further reading. However I still can’t seem to find the actual booklet online for non commercial class a/b license however there are plenty of links to class c class m and CDL manuals for Kansas. Plus if I have the class A non commercial license I can operate basically anything that doesn’t fall into the CDL category.

Lol! EXACTLY the same in PA. There's no manual or study guide for a non-commercial A or B. You basically have to study the one for a CDL, just omitting non-applicable chapters. Here is PA, you only take a road test and you have to demonstrate your proficiency by practicing on the route and in scenarios the test administrator puts forth. Here in PA you have to be accompanied by a current license holder, and I've been that guy for many. In the past year, PA has made it so much tougher on those going for it, and some of the administrators are over the top IMO. The differences between test sites seems to be diminishing too with more consistency in the regiment.

Your gotcha might be having the combination to meet the A (or having access to). That is, you bring the equipment to test in.

[Steven@147]

I recently decided to move up to a class a motor home a s discovered the non commercial class a or b license requirement in Kansas. The thing that is baffling me is I’ve been to 4 different RV dealers in the Wichita area and they all said no special license is required. Finally today I just whipped out my phone while at a dealer and showed them the requirements. I’ve also inquired at my local dmv and they said the same thing. The thing that baffles me is the lack of knowledge from both the dealers selling these rigs and lack of knowledge at the dmv. And according to an earlier post it’s not an isolated issue.

There is also a pretty significant lack of information online about what I need to do to prepare for a change from class c to presumably a class A non commercial since most diesel class a motor homes are well above the 26000 lb GRWV and I’d like to tow a vehicle behind the RV. If I understand correctly I’d need a class B non commercial license to operate a vehicle over 26000 lbs GRWV and a class A to tow another vehicle behind it.

Hopefully someone here can educate me to if I’m correct in my understanding of kansas law pertaining to this situation and where I might be able to get the proper information to prepare for any written and driving tests I need. I’ve already spent several hours looking online and asking local dmv and law enforcement and having discussions with RV salesmen. I’m sure not going to make an investment on a expensive RV until I’m sure I can legally operate it. Thanks

I know what you're going through. The idea behind the special drivers license was to ensure that people were towing things safely, a good idea in my book, but then it seems each state implemented the special licensing with their own special twist on it or not at all for some states. What is required for Texas drivers licenses most likely will not be exactly the same that is required for owners in other states. I found RV dealership sales people are the worst ones to ask about the special licenses. Either they don't know about it, or do, but don't want to admit it for fear that it will nix a sale, or just get it wrong. There is also a lot of confusion at the DMV facilities on what is required. It is getting better, but not totally. I ran into it all, but fortunately for me someone in Texas had gone where nobody had gone before and documented it on the Escapee's forum, at least for the Texas requirements.

Here in Texas, the Class A non-CDL/Exempt drivers license is reserved for vehicles pulling a trailer, travel trailer or 5th wheel. The Class B non-CDL/Exempt drivers license is for Motorhomes, or Motorhomes pulling something. Either license required if your over a certain weight. There is no specific booklet for the license, specific sections of the CDL manual are used. Here in Texas you have to fill out specific forms, take a written test on three sections of the CDL manual, and then a driving test. The two tests (written/driving) can be taken at the same facility or different facility, however the driving test can only be taken at what Texas calls a DMV megacenter. I use DMV as a generic term, actually Texas calls their facilities DPS.

Obviously none of this helps you with the Kansas requirements so there is no need for me to tell you the Texas spin on it. Just hang in there, learn all you can and try to get with someone in Kansas that has already been through it for your state. What I will say is get the license, don't take the chance of getting caught without it. (if your state requires it) Also here in Texas a learners permit is available for you to operate your rig without the special license until you get it. All states that require a special license may not have a learners permit, but it is something for you to check into.

A Texas Class A Non CDL Exempt license holder.

[Azlin75]

I did find some language in other counties information regarding licensing in Kansas an the corresponding learners permit. So it does appear that they do offer a 90 day learning permit for non commercial A/B and the wording appears to indicate it’s a combined A/B permit. Next week I’ll call to some of these county treasurers (where we usually go in rural counties for licensing purposes) to see if I can gather more information. It also appears that a non commercial class B license is required to drive a school bus but I’ve seen contradicting wording at different county websites where they claim an additional endorsement is added to your class c license. I also know several school bus drivers so I’ll talk to some of them to see what o can find out and get some direction.

I own a landscaping company in the community I live in, and ironically since it’s just local business (less then 150 mile radius) no commercial or additional licenses are needed to operate business. But in the community I live in the local city government tends to watch successful businesses and fine them if they are even a little out of compliance. I know the former chief of police and he stated it’s an issue of they know I’m making money, they know I want to stay in business and I’ll pay. So I have learned to make sure I’m well informed on anything I do that may require special permitting and licensing over the last 10 years so my wallet doesn’t get any lighter then normal. Basically it’s just small town politics but not worth the hassle to not get the appropriate license if required. And it’s saves me if there is ever an accident or an insurance claim.

I’ve also decided to write a letter to my state representative since it’s very confusing and I know that there are likely thousands of people that have campers and motor homes they are operating without the proper documents. It could be terrible for these folks since the RV dealers and county dmv clerk tell them they don’t need any special licensing. And it’s because there isn’t any clear information or easy access. I’m also assuming the license isn’t that much harder to get then a class c license because the actual cost of a non commercial class a/b is only a few dollars more then a class c. Certainly cheaper then a CDL of any designation.

[Steven@147]

I did find some language in other counties information regarding licensing in Kansas an the corresponding learners permit. So it does appear that they do offer a 90 day learning permit for non commercial A/B and the wording appears to indicate it’s a combined A/B permit. Next week I’ll call to some of these county treasurers (where we usually go in rural counties for licensing purposes) to see if I can gather more information. It also appears that a non commercial class B license is required to drive a school bus but I’ve seen contradicting wording at different county websites where they claim an additional endorsement is added to your class c license. I also know several school bus drivers so I’ll talk to some of them to see what o can find out and get some direction.

I own a landscaping company in the community I live in, and ironically since it’s just local business (less then 150 mile radius) no commercial or additional licenses are needed to operate business. But in the community I live in the local city government tends to watch successful businesses and fine them if they are even a little out of compliance. I know the former chief of police and he stated it’s an issue of they know I’m making money, they know I want to stay in business and I’ll pay. So I have learned to make sure I’m well informed on anything I do that may require special permitting and licensing over the last 10 years so my wallet doesn’t get any lighter then normal. Basically it’s just small town politics but not worth the hassle to not get the appropriate license if required. And it’s saves me if there is ever an accident or an insurance claim.

I’ve also decided to write a letter to my state representative since it’s very confusing and I know that there are likely thousands of people that have campers and motor homes they are operating without the proper documents. It could be terrible for these folks since the RV dealers and county dmv clerk tell them they don’t need any special licensing. And it’s because there isn’t any clear information or easy access. I’m also assuming the license isn’t that much harder to get then a class c license because the actual cost of a non commercial class a/b is only a few dollars more then a class c. Certainly cheaper then a CDL of any designation.

You got it. For me in TX once I got the straight skiny, a little cost, a little time and reading the 3 sections of the CDL manual. Really common sense stuff and a few questions on air brakes, hooking up a 5th wheel, and the colored lights on the side of the vehicle and spacing distances and turning radius. The driving test lasted about 30-40 minutes. He had me back the rig up in a straight line for 50 feet, then took me out on the roads, common sense driving. You had to lose 32 points in order to fail the driving test, you got to be a real moron to fail the driving test. I lost a total of 2 points because I didn't move over into the slow lane fast enough after making a turn.

[Azlin75]

Well I’ve not had a whole lot of luck other then I had a fun debate with an examiner I know (knew the guy for a while but didn’t know he was an examiner). He told me that as long as it’s for personal use and not commercial I could drive anything I wanted. The subcontractor I had working with me today whipped out his DL as he has a non commercial class A and right on the back of the license it says allowed to operate a vehicle over 26001 lbs GRWV and any combination of vehicle towing over 26001 GRWV. Then I pull mine out and is says any vehicle or combination of vehicles less then 26001 GRWV. He then said well that’s not right, and I said well have to go by it because that’s what it says on my license.

I’m not sure but I’m thinking at one time what I being told by everyone was perhaps the way it was however at some point Kansas changed the law. But I’m just guessing. I’m hoping at this point I am not going to have to go to Wichita to do the driving test as I’m told they are very strict, and require you to parallel park an RV without use of the camera system or a spotter.

[Steven@147]

Well I’ve not had a whole lot of luck other then I had a fun debate with an examiner I know (knew the guy for a while but didn’t know he was an examiner). He told me that as long as it’s for personal use and not commercial I could drive anything I wanted. The subcontractor I had working with me today whipped out his DL as he has a non commercial class A and right on the back of the license it says allowed to operate a vehicle over 26001 lbs GRWV and any combination of vehicle towing over 26001 GRWV. Then I pull mine out and is says any vehicle or combination of vehicles less then 26001 GRWV. He then said well that’s not right, and I said well have to go by it because that’s what it says on my license.

I’m not sure but I’m thinking at one time what I being told by everyone was perhaps the way it was however at some point Kansas changed the law. But I’m just guessing. I’m hoping at this point I am not going to have to go to Wichita to do the driving test as I’m told they are very strict, and require you to parallel park an RV without use of the camera system or a spotter.

Doesn't surprise me. The back of my license says Class A Combination vehicle w/ GVWR equal to or greater than 26,001 lbs provided towed vehicle is equal to or greater than 10,000 lbs. Slight twist on TX licensing, combined CGVWR has to be over 26,001 lbs and towing a vehicle GVWR 10,000 or greater. I'm at 30,800 lbs CGVWR

They are most likely correct on parallel parking an RV. It has been reported some TX driver testing stations make you parallel park the RV without a camera and no spotter. However if you read the TX CDL manual which the Class A or B license is based it says you should always use a spotter. Go Figure!

When I took my test the guy looked at my RV vehicle safety inspection. Then had me test all the lights, then had me back in a straight line. Went out on the street on 4 lane divided avenues and through one residential street. On one of the 4 lane streets we came around a curve and the police had the road blocked because of an accident. We sat there a little while with flashers on. The guy saw a cross over ahead of us, from the north bound lanes to the south bound, asked if I thought I could do a U-turn in the street through the cross over. I said yup, I don't want to set here either. I'm right at 53 feet, took up all the lanes, made the U-turn and did not curb any of the tires. Guy said I wont grade you on that illegal turn, but nicely done! We had a good laugh about it, super nice guy. Oh and I made sure my exhaust brake was turned off, they will deduct points for using it if the city you are in doesn't allow its use.

[Nuffsaid]

I always read these threads about weights and being over 26,001 lbs and type of license required and just go hmmmm. One of my best friends is a retired WY State Trooper and he is very knowledgeable about the Wyoming laws, at least until they changed them several years ago. He always told me that the sticker on your truck combined with the sticker on your trailer/tGK railers added together is your total combined GVCWR. My old truck was a 2002 silverado 2500 with a GVRW of 9200 lbs and my old trailer is a 2001 Holiday Rambler Alumascape with a GVWR of 11,500 which put me at 20,700 combined, but I also tow a horse trailer behind the Alumascape, and since I built the horse trailer, it doesn't have a tag on it. He told me to tell any officer that pulls me over that the GVWR of that trailer is 5,000 lbs to keep me under the 26,001 limit.

Now I have a 2017 Silverado 3500HD with a GVWR of 11,600 and my 310GK is 15,000 so my combined with those two is 26,600 and I tow a 3,000 enclosed trailer or my 4,500 lb Jeep behind the Solitude. Well, Wyoming changed their laws several years ago and now you can have a combined RV weight of 39,000 lbs with a class C license. But for commercial type use it is still 26,001.

Last week, I was in Montana for work. I work for a State of Wyoming Agency and for work I go to Billings, Montana every two weeks with a 28' Haulmark enclosed trailer with a GVWR of 14,000 lbs and last year I upgraded from a GMC 3500 SRW with a GVWR of 11,500 to a new GMC 2019 3500 DRW with a GVWR of 13,200 and wouldn't you know it I got pulled over by Montana Commercial vehicle enforcement. The officer told me he was going to do an inspection of my equipment and weigh me. I gave him my license and registration and explained that I worked for the State of Wyoming. 15 minutes later he told me politely that he wasn't going to weigh me, but I was driving outside of my license because my CGVWR is 27,200 lbs and that I needed to have a class A license. So, this is a royal pain in the butt. I upgraded trucks for safety and now I need to get a CDL because Wyoming doesn't have non commercial class A licenses. I am looking into another solution though and I have contacted Haulmark and asked about derating the GVWR of my trailer down to 12,750 so that I can stay below the 26,001 limit. If that works, that's awesome, if not, I have another 3500 truck at work I can use that is a single wheel truck, but it has a utility bed on it and is loaded with tools, so I am almost at the 11,600 limit with no weight in the trailer.

I truly think it is time for a lot of these laws to be revised. New pickups are so much more capable than trucks of old and the laws should reflect that. One other thing that will make you scratch your head is that the officer that pulled me over in Montana laughed when I asked him what would happen if I was in an RV instead of a commercial vehicle. He told me that he wouldn't care one bit, because Montana has no limit on what you can tow with a class C license in an RV. He told me I could have a class A motorhome towing a large trailer behind it with another trailer behind that one and still be legal. Go figure!

[Steven@147]

I always read these threads about weights and being over 26,001 lbs and type of license required and just go hmmmm. One of my best friends is a retired WY State Trooper and he is very knowledgeable about the Wyoming laws, at least until they changed them several years ago. He always told me that the sticker on your truck combined with the sticker on your trailer/tGK railers added together is your total combined GVCWR. My old truck was a 2002 silverado 2500 with a GVRW of 9200 lbs and my old trailer is a 2001 Holiday Rambler Alumascape with a GVWR of 11,500 which put me at 20,700 combined, but I also tow a horse trailer behind the Alumascape, and since I built the horse trailer, it doesn't have a tag on it. He told me to tell any officer that pulls me over that the GVWR of that trailer is 5,000 lbs to keep me under the 26,001 limit.

Now I have a 2017 Silverado 3500HD with a GVWR of 11,600 and my 310GK is 15,000 so my combined with those two is 26,600 and I tow a 3,000 enclosed trailer or my 4,500 lb Jeep behind the Solitude. Well, Wyoming changed their laws several years ago and now you can have a combined RV weight of 39,000 lbs with a class C license. But for commercial type use it is still 26,001.

Last week, I was in Montana for work. I work for a State of Wyoming Agency and for work I go to Billings, Montana every two weeks with a 28' Haulmark enclosed trailer with a GVWR of 14,000 lbs and last year I upgraded from a GMC 3500 SRW with a GVWR of 11,500 to a new GMC 2019 3500 DRW with a GVWR of 13,200 and wouldn't you know it I got pulled over by Montana Commercial vehicle enforcement. The officer told me he was going to do an inspection of my equipment and weigh me. I gave him my license and registration and explained that I worked for the State of Wyoming. 15 minutes later he told me politely that he wasn't going to weigh me, but I was driving outside of my license because my CGVWR is 27,200 lbs and that I needed to have a class A license. So, this is a royal pain in the butt. I upgraded trucks for safety and now I need to get a CDL because Wyoming doesn't have non commercial class A licenses. I am looking into another solution though and I have contacted Haulmark and asked about derating the GVWR of my trailer down to 12,750 so that I can stay below the 26,001 limit. If that works, that's awesome, if not, I have another 3500 truck at work I can use that is a single wheel truck, but it has a utility bed on it and is loaded with tools, so I am almost at the 11,600 limit with no weight in the trailer.

I truly think it is time for a lot of these laws to be revised. New pickups are so much more capable than trucks of old and the laws should reflect that. One other thing that will make you scratch your head is that the officer that pulled me over in Montana laughed when I asked him what would happen if I was in an RV instead of a commercial vehicle. He told me that he wouldn't care one bit, because Montana has no limit on what you can tow with a class C license in an RV. He told me I could have a class A motorhome towing a large trailer behind it with another trailer behind that one and still be legal. Go figure!

Sometimes it seems like it just doesn't make any sense, right?. The confusion, commercial Vs non-commercial, what is or is not required specifically for RVs, Many states with different requirements, different law enforcement organizations interpreting the laws in different ways regarding RVs. In the end, the only thing to know is, if you comply with the drivers licensing laws in your state, then you will be ok to drive in any state. Except for triple towing, it is legal in some states and illegal in others.

Now it is more than likely that even in your home state, law enforcement officers will have different attitudes and knowledge of the state requirements. City and Town officers, County, State (Texas=DPS) and here in Texas Constables. Shoot here in Texas we even have the Texas Rangers but they don't deal with these kinds of things but they could in an accident situation. You may not find any two officers that would agree on the regulations. In casual conversations with officers I have found this. But then again I have had officers tell me they don't bother with RVers, probably ignore them unless obvious. They are looking for commercial vehicles. However we have all probably seen trucks with RVs way overloaded.

More than likely in your travels with an RV you may never get stopped, never checked, but me, I don't want to take a chance on running into a local Barny Fife (my apology to Officers out there) they could make your life miserable temporarily, or god forbid in an accident, my fault or not. I also have friends that are Texas DPS Officers (state police) arguing with them or explaining the confusion, or asking them to give you a break, will get you nowhere fast! Heck one of my DPS acquaintances once gave me a seat belt ticket for traveling on a road for 50 yards, out of the gas station and into a fast food restaurant, without my seatbelt on. Cost me $250 fine.
If you got it, you're good to go. In the end I just try to keep in mind that it's not supposed to be just about weight, its also supposed to be about safety of operation.