NON Commercial Driver License

[Nuffsaid]

Sometimes it seems like it just doesn't make any sense, right?. The confusion, commercial Vs non-commercial, what is or is not required specifically for RVs, Many states with different requirements, different law enforcement organizations interpreting the laws in different ways regarding RVs. In the end, the only thing to know is, if you comply with the drivers licensing laws in your state, then you will be ok to drive in any state. Except for triple towing, it is legal in some states and illegal in others.

Now it is more than likely that even in your home state, law enforcement officers will have different attitudes and knowledge of the state requirements. City and Town officers, County, State (Texas=DPS) and here in Texas Constables. Shoot here in Texas we even have the Texas Rangers but they don't deal with these kinds of things but they could in an accident situation. You may not find any two officers that would agree on the regulations. In casual conversations with officers I have found this. But then again I have had officers tell me they don't bother with RVers, probably ignore them unless obvious. They are looking for commercial vehicles. However we have all probably seen trucks with RVs way overloaded.

More than likely in your travels with an RV you may never get stopped, never checked, but me, I don't want to take a chance on running into a local Barny Fife (my apology to Officers out there) they could make your life miserable temporarily, or god forbid in an accident, my fault or not. I also have friends that are Texas DPS Officers (state police) arguing with them or explaining the confusion, or asking them to give you a break, will get you nowhere fast! Heck one of my DPS acquaintances once gave me a seat belt ticket for traveling on a road for 50 yards, out of the gas station and into a fast food restaurant, without my seatbelt on. Cost me $250 fine.
If you got it, you're good to go. In the end I just try to keep in mind that it's not supposed to be just about weight, its also supposed to be about safety of operation.

At this point, I am considering getting a Class A CDL, but once I have that, I probably also need to get a dually because I won't have the ability to say I didn't know I am over loaded anymore.

[Azlin75]

Sometimes it seems like it just doesn't make any sense, right?. The confusion, commercial Vs non-commercial, what is or is not required specifically for RVs, Many states with different requirements, different law enforcement organizations interpreting the laws in different ways regarding RVs. In the end, the only thing to know is, if you comply with the drivers licensing laws in your state, then you will be ok to drive in any state. Except for triple towing, it is legal in some states and illegal in others.

Now it is more than likely that even in your home state, law enforcement officers will have different attitudes and knowledge of the state requirements. City and Town officers, County, State (Texas=DPS) and here in Texas Constables. Shoot here in Texas we even have the Texas Rangers but they don't deal with these kinds of things but they could in an accident situation. You may not find any two officers that would agree on the regulations. In casual conversations with officers I have found this. But then again I have had officers tell me they don't bother with RVers, probably ignore them unless obvious. They are looking for commercial vehicles. However we have all probably seen trucks with RVs way overloaded.

More than likely in your travels with an RV you may never get stopped, never checked, but me, I don't want to take a chance on running into a local Barny Fife (my apology to Officers out there) they could make your life miserable temporarily, or god forbid in an accident, my fault or not. I also have friends that are Texas DPS Officers (state police) arguing with them or explaining the confusion, or asking them to give you a break, will get you nowhere fast! Heck one of my DPS acquaintances once gave me a seat belt ticket for traveling on a road for 50 yards, out of the gas station and into a fast food restaurant, without my seatbelt on. Cost me $250 fine.
If you got it, you're good to go. In the end I just try to keep in mind that it's not supposed to be just about weight, its also supposed to be about safety of operation.

I understand that certain states have laws on weight combinations and there safety however most states have no weight restrictions on personal use vehicles. And since licensing requirements revert to the state your licensed in it doesn’t make a lot of sense. Example Oklahoma has no licensing requirement for a class a diesel pusher with a towed vehicle but Texas and kansas do. If Oklahoma guy has is involved in an accident that isn’t his fault in say Texas no citation is issued and insurance will pay out. However if kansas guy has someone to one his class A RV and he has a class c license due to the dealers and DMV clerk telling him he don’t need one it’s a different story since he’s limited to 26001 lbs total combined weight.

I was able to get concrete evidence on actual restrictions for class C licenses in Kansas by visiting with a DMV clerk in Wichita. You are limited to a single vehicle of 26001 lbs GRWV or while towing a trailer no more then 10000 lbs GRWV and the combination is under 26001 GRWV combined. Also due to the pandemic your only options currently for a driving test in my area is Wichita, Pratt, and Hutchinson. And you will be given the same test as a CDL, be required to parallel park your rig using only the mirrors, and if you intend to tow a vehicle 4 down you’d better find something different to do the test because as we all know you can’t back a 4 down vehicle.

Was informed a single vehicle over 26001 lbs GRWV is a class b non commercial and combined vehicles over 26001 lbs GRWV requires a class a non commercial license. Then the guy, who was very nice and helpful btw, went on to say that generally they don’t mess with people in RV’s due to weight but informed me of the perils should you be in an accident operating these combinations. And some of the examples given were guy rents a skid steer at local rental place with a trailer using a 1 ton truck. Depending on the GRWV of the trailer at the rental place your likely operating outside the limitations of a class c license due to the 10000 lbs GRWV restriction on towed vehicles. My first thought was how many fifth wheel toy haulers running thru my town every weekend on their way to the little Sahara are technically over weight for their license?

Now with all that said I know for a fact there are a lot of folks operating combinations outside licensing restrictions here in Kansas because they simply don’t know. Where the concern I have is when the dealers don’t know but your local dmv tells you your fine. The dmv not knowing and incorrectly telling you is pretty messed up. Just the info from my local dmv vs Wichita was significantly different. Then add to the fact that only a hand full of states, right or wrong, have restrictions makes it quite frustrating. Then the time frame your given for the learners permit, 90 days in the state of Kansas, isn’t nearly long enough to be comfortable driving your 40’ rig if you’ve never done it before.

I think, at least for kansas, your best bet is use a truck and trailer combo that falls into the non commercial class A category and test with that. In my specific case I generally drive a truck trailer combo nearly 8 months out of the year. The only difference is the weight rating of the trailer. In my case it would be much easier to pass the test that way then if I tried to use an RV and dolly combo.

But I think at this point my wife and I have decided to compromise. We are now looking at gas class A RV’s instead of diesel RV’s so we don’t have to jump thru all the hoops and we can get comfortable navigating a large profile vehicle and be within the weight restrictions of my license. Then later when the pandemic has passed and driving tests are local again we don’t have to have as strict or congested driving test and will feel more confident driving a more expensive RV.

In closing I want to say the difficulty for obtaining the proper class license for RV use is ridiculous. Basically having to study and test for a CDL is pretty silly considering the non commercial class A license is only a few bucks more then a class c license. And only certain portions of the CDL requirements pertain to RV driving. It almost seems like a money grab except the license fee is minimal. Maybe they hope to get revenue from citations but even then you’d have to be in an accident for that to come into play it seems so the difficulty seems overly cumbersome for what it is. At the end of the day I now know what’s required and I’ll make sure I’m within those restrictions until I choose to upgrade my license. Better to make sure I’m good within the letter of the law, be comfortable operating the combinations of vehicles I’m operating, and being as safe as I can on the road. Because at the end of the day as I was informed ignorance of the law isn’t an excuse and you are ultimately responsible regardless of what information you are given even if it’s the dmv and that information is false.

[Crazybanshee]

I had a class A CDL years ago when I bought my first HDT. Pain to keep up on requirements. Since my trucks are registered as RV's I went back to a class C and Have had no problems here in Colorado. Truck and trailer tip the scales at 48K. Travel all the western states without any issues.

[Steven@147]

In closing I want to say the difficulty for obtaining the proper class license for RV use is ridiculous. Basically having to study and test for a CDL is pretty silly considering the non commercial class A license is only a few bucks more then a class c license. And only certain portions of the CDL requirements pertain to RV driving. It almost seems like a money grab except the license fee is minimal. Maybe they hope to get revenue from citations but even then you’d have to be in an accident for that to come into play it seems so the difficulty seems overly cumbersome for what it is. At the end of the day I now know what’s required and I’ll make sure I’m within those restrictions until I choose to upgrade my license. Better to make sure I’m good within the letter of the law, be comfortable operating the combinations of vehicles I’m operating, and being as safe as I can on the road. Because at the end of the day as I was informed ignorance of the law isn’t an excuse and you are ultimately responsible regardless of what information you are given even if it’s the dmv and that information is false.

Having to get a full CDL for an RV is messed up for sure.
Things maybe changing, slow but for sure. Before at our RV dealership I had them tell me no special license was required (I new better, didn't argue with them) and didn't say much about our tow vehicle. Then 2 years later when we bought our Solitude we had to fill out a tow vehicle form (green sheet) with tow specifications for our truck that confirmed it was capable of towing the Solitude before the purchase paperwork could be completed. Had it not been capable then we would be required to sign a waver of liability. There was no mention of a special drivers license requirement. They wouldn't discuss it, just said get with the Texas DPS. This might have been specific to our RV dealership, but I think dealerships in general at least here in Texas, are becoming aware of the issues and want to protect themselves against liability. I took and passed the DPS written test right after we got the rig, I had 90 days to take and pass the driving test.
Farmers and Ranchers here in Texas are exempt from the Class A or B restrictions by having a farmers license plate. There are huge hay trailers hauling heavy loads with big pickup trucks here. Also big horse trailers and combo RV/horse trailers.

With the explosion in RV sales, we see lots of them on the road daily, and the more accidents happen involving RVs, it may not take too much longer before the eyes of the law start looking more at RVs. I don't know maybe not. Last year we ran across an accident involving a large 5th wheel just south of Livingston. It was lying on its side blocking all lanes of traffic. We sat on the highway for over 3 hours for them to clear the road.

A lot of people fulltiming register their rigs like in South Dakota because there are no special licensing or safety inspection requirements, license and plates fees are lower and no State Income Tax. I don't know specifics about States like Florida popular with the RV fulltiming crowd.

[Azlin75]

Having to get a full CDL for an RV is messed up for sure.
Things maybe changing, slow but for sure. Before at our RV dealership I had them tell me no special license was required (I new better, didn't argue with them) and didn't say much about our tow vehicle. Then 2 years later when we bought our Solitude we had to fill out a tow vehicle form (green sheet) with tow specifications for our truck that confirmed it was capable of towing the Solitude before the purchase paperwork could be completed. Had it not been capable then we would be required to sign a waver of liability. There was no mention of a special drivers license requirement. They wouldn't discuss it, just said get with the Texas DPS. This might have been specific to our RV dealership, but I think dealerships in general at least here in Texas, are becoming aware of the issues and want to protect themselves against liability. I took and passed the DPS written test right after we got the rig, I had 90 days to take and pass the driving test.
Farmers and Ranchers here in Texas are exempt from the Class A or B restrictions by having a farmers license plate. There are huge hay trailers hauling heavy loads with big pickup trucks here. Also big horse trailers and combo RV/horse trailers.

With the explosion in RV sales, we see lots of them on the road daily, and the more accidents happen involving RVs, it may not take too much longer before the eyes of the law start looking more at RVs. I don't know maybe not. Last year we ran across an accident involving a large 5th wheel just south of Livingston. It was lying on its side blocking all lanes of traffic. We sat on the highway for over 3 hours for them to clear the road.

A lot of people fulltiming register their rigs like in South Dakota because there are no special licensing or safety inspection requirements, license and plates fees are lower and no State Income Tax. I don't know specifics about States like Florida popular with the RV fulltiming crowd.

I want to make sure I get the situation here in Kansas straight. Currently you are required a non commercial class a for combinations over 26001lbs GRWV and non commercial class b for single vehicle over 26001 GRWV. But since they aren’t sending out individuals to conduct driving tests to any counties the only stations that will do driving tests basically do the driving test as if you were getting a CDL. Which is just silly.

I also am quite concerned with more and more people who may or may not be up to the task of pulling some of these campers or driving these motorhomes. I looked to see if there were any RV schools in Kansas because it sure seemed like a good idea to do before just jumping into a 40’ motor home and plowing down the road having never been in one. The only driving schools for RV’s is up near Kansas City. Probably some down in Oklahoma City or Tulsa but again long ways to go and the one in KC required you to bring your RV.

As far as requiring a different license or even an endorsement on a class c to operate or pull an RV, I’m ok with that too but you have to make it a little simpler to do the it is now. I mean personally I don’t want to potentially risk my family or my investment until I’ve gained some proficiency.

We currently have a fifth wheel that we’ve had for several years. I know how it behaves and pulls. But a different camper or a motor home likely would be quite different and for some of these larger fifth wheel campers likely would require an upgraded license and maybe a bigger truck since I only have a 3/4 ton.

It’s been interesting learning all the interesting obstacles regarding this issue and even more interesting the issues others have had. I think, while not ideal, our plan to purchase a smaller gas class a RV that fall into the requirements of my current license is maybe a good idea. Will allow me to get comfortable operating a motor home before moving into something a bit larger and more expensive that requires the upgraded license. And it relieves a bit of the stress due to hoops for a license. I think we’ve kinda picked a couple of RV’s we like that tip in at the 18000 lbs range and are around 30 to 33 ft. Of course now is the worst time to be “shopping” for an RV but I don’t want to lose another year. Hopefully what we are looking at is available in a month or so. Just waiting for the vehicle we paid off to register on credit score for that bump in score before we have a hard credit check lower it again. And it gives us time to look at several RV’s so we don’t jump into a bigger issue.

Thanks everyone for your input and stories. It certainly has been enlightening.

[sawman91]

Hi there! Just curious, do you know the name of the driving school in KC metro area? I am from this area and would like to check it out. Thanks!

[Second Chance]

Hi there! Just curious, do you know the name of the driving school in KC metro area? I am from this area and would like to check it out. Thanks!

I don't know who you're asking, but you realize this thread is over four years old?

Rob

[livinthelife]

Hi there! Just curious, do you know the name of the driving school in KC metro area? I am from this area and would like to check it out. Thanks!

Just to answer the question - we used https://www.rvschool.com/ for our lessons. They have regional drivers they send out.

[MCJones]

NC has the rule for needing a non commercial CDL. After driving my motor home for 3 years I discovered this after talking to a local RV dealer. SO I passed the written test and that took some studying and had to bring by motor home to the road test site and go thru the lights/brakes(air)/before taking the examiner for a ride around Bryson City. Passed and then only drove it for two more years before going to a 5th. Live in FL now and it wouldn't be an issue here. It was a real treat driving around a city and it was a good thing I had 3 years experience before trying that! jmo mark

[Steven@147]

When RV driver licensing in some states first started to come to light back when, it seems a lot of states have joined the band wagon. There is still places in states having the requirements where there is a lot of disinformation. The worst place to ask questions is the RV dealerships.
It never made much sense to me, some questions on a computer screen and a short driving skills test doesn't do anything for experience in towing. But I think it does familiarize drivers with some of the details in towing, just like it does for driving semi's requiring a full CDL. I mean does it really help a drivers towing experience knowing what colored lights are required on the side of the RV?
Whatever, but hey I got the license.