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  1. #1
    Long Hauler D2Reid's Avatar
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    Camping when the temps are below freezing

    First off, thanks to the forum administrator's for creating this line. It's a good place to talk about really cold weather camping. In our dotage we have rediscovered skiing. As a result we travel to ski resorts for the winter. Yea, I know, we are supposed to travel to Florida. But we lived in FL for a long time, we watched the snow birds come south then go north. We could buy into that, or we could do something different.

    Our choice is different. We travel to ski resorts in the winter. This requires understanding how RV's work in cold weather. A lot of questions are asked about the comfort level of RV's in cold weather. The reality is they will never be as comfortable as a house in cold weather. So what kind of compromise might be met?

    Through proper heat management we maintain a mean temp of 67f. This includes periods of sub-zero temps. It requires effort and planning. The point of this section is for folks to discuss winter/cold weather camping. It requires some learning.
    Dallas
    2017 Momentum 376TH, 2019 Ford F450, Dual Rear Wheel, 4x4, diesel.
    2015 Harley-Davidson Street, XG750

  2. #2
    Long Hauler LCBoyer's Avatar
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    I have used a heated, and well insulated water hose, a 75 Watt light bulb in my utility closet, and only dump when sun is shining on stinky slinky. With plenty of LP and electricity we survived. I hope I never have to again
    2018 Freedom Elite 24FE, 2 Yorkies, and my wife MARILYN, HAM call K0LCB. Traveling around this great country, making friends and seeing lot of beautiful and interesting places

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    Site Team Second Chance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LCBoyer View Post
    I have used a heated, and well insulated water hose, a 75 Watt light bulb in my utility closet, and only dump when sun is shining on stinky slinky. With plenty of LP and electricity we survived. I hope I never have to again
    ... Hence the palm trees in your profile photo, LC. "I'm goin' where the weather suits my clothes..." (Harry Nilsson, 1968)

    Rob
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  4. #4
    Site Sponsor orbiker's Avatar
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    We have camped in the low 20's in the 380TH. We filled up the water tank and used the pump.

    Is that the safer way to go? Or heated hose? Or both?

    KEN
    Backpacker and tent camper all my life, including BSA as a kid and adult.
    Motorcycle trips across the USA with a tent - 1978 to Present.
    02-10-2005 - 2002 F350 SWD PSD and 2003 Citation 10'8S mostly for Crater Lake Ski Patrol.
    10-29-2015 - 2016 Grand Design 380TH. It's HUGE compared to a camper.
    10-19-2018 - traded truck for a 2016 Ram 3500 DRW Laramie CC 4 X 4 Long Box.
    03-16-2019 - Traded Momentum for a New 2018 374TH-R Solitude
    FULL TIME RV'er Nov 2021

  5. #5
    Long Hauler D2Reid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orbiker View Post
    We have camped in the low 20's in the 380TH. We filled up the water tank and used the pump.

    Is that the safer way to go? Or heated hose? Or both?

    KEN
    Depends on how long you plan on staying. For short weekend trips I would not bother with a heated hose. We tend to stay for a month or four, I not only have a heated hose I have a heated sewer line.

    Safer? I don't see a risk if everything is set up properly. I am trying to think of pitfalls.

    Ok, tank first, tank heaters on. Just assuming this was done, it's kind of basic. In my 376 the water pump is well inside a heated area, probably about the warmest place in the RV, so that's ok as long as the propane heater is running. With the tank heater on the holding tank should not freeze. The only issue then is adding water in sub-freezing temps. If the spigot is heated and the water hose draining you can add water to the tank in really cold weather, it's not a pleasant task, but it can't be done. Drain the unheated hose when finished, store in a heated area.

    Heated water hose. Oh boy, I have had some adventures. I bought the expensive heated hose the first year, don't know why but it failed after 2 months. I got the sensor on the wrong end so had to do some creative hose additions to get the sensor outside where it is useful. I bought another one this year and went through the same gyrations, but it has worked all winter. In spite of the warnings on the packages I have had good luck with heat tape, I use high grade electrical tape, lay the heat tape flat against the hose, the about every foot or so wrap electrical tape around both to hold in place. I then add self adhesive pipe insulation around the outside edge. I did this for 2 years and never froze. The one issue I did have was the constant heat on the hose will cause it to deteriorate, I replaced my water hose each spring.

    Heated sewer hose. Sewer hoses are not built to stand any kind of heat, fortunately heat tape only gets up to 40F, or so the packaging says. The most important thing in winter sewer hose is ensuring a constant flow from rv connection to sewer connection, no places for water to stand and/or collect. I then take a string of heat tape and lay on the bottom of whatever it is I am using to insure constant flow. I have used both caterpillar hose holder and rain gutter. I tend to like the rain gutter a little better, a more positive control of the decline. I then covered that with some bubble foam insulation and taped into place.

    I did not heat my sewer hose this year. Instead I made double decker sure it would drain completely. The placement of the tank valves well inside of the heated area coupled with no obstructions in the pipe once it leaves the heated area made this possible. Plus I never got into subzero (-22f) temps to challenge this. I think -3 was about the coldest we had and that only lasted a day or two.

    I always test the sewage dump with a little grey water before I commit to the black water dump. Sometimes this means digging the ends out of the snow so I can see the semi-transparent end of the sewer hose. I had a neighbor not do this, he got pretty excited about a hose full of black water that wouldn't drain.

    There is some talk of heated hose contamination. I can see this, I mitigate it by changing the hose every year. I view the danger level of this to somewhere close to getting lung cancer by driving through large city. Could happen, probably won't.
    Dallas
    2017 Momentum 376TH, 2019 Ford F450, Dual Rear Wheel, 4x4, diesel.
    2015 Harley-Davidson Street, XG750

  6. #6
    Site Sponsor orbiker's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the info Dallas.

    For now, we don't have a heated hose. We for now are just weekend warriors or extended week outings if vacation time permits.

    When are you leaving Armitage? KEN
    Backpacker and tent camper all my life, including BSA as a kid and adult.
    Motorcycle trips across the USA with a tent - 1978 to Present.
    02-10-2005 - 2002 F350 SWD PSD and 2003 Citation 10'8S mostly for Crater Lake Ski Patrol.
    10-29-2015 - 2016 Grand Design 380TH. It's HUGE compared to a camper.
    10-19-2018 - traded truck for a 2016 Ram 3500 DRW Laramie CC 4 X 4 Long Box.
    03-16-2019 - Traded Momentum for a New 2018 374TH-R Solitude
    FULL TIME RV'er Nov 2021

  7. #7
    Rolling Along
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    I haven't had the chance to see how well the Solitude does in the winter time yet, but I have quite a bit of experience with staying in a trailer in the winter. Twenty one years ago when I moved my family to Wyoming, I got to learn the hard way how to survive in a travel trailer in the winter while working construction. Back then I didn't have any slide outs, so heating was easier. I used a copper water line wrapped with heat tape and thick foam insulation on the water line, I didn't like the taste of water in a heated soft hose.

    In later years, I usually spend some time elk hunting in cold temps in my 2001 Holiday Rambler Alumascape. Some of the down falls of the alumascape are it has a smooth heavy aluminum skin for siding, looks nice, but transfers heat and cold. Also, the area below the frame rails has zero insulation, just the plastic cardboard style bell pan. I wrapped the hot and cold water lines with heat tape and foam insulation. I also cut rigid pieces of Dow blue board that is two inches thick and fit it into the frame rails. People don't think about it, but the frame rail is a huge heat sink, especially when a dedicated heater duct goes below the floor to keep the tanks thawed. Keeping the heat in really helps. I think spray foaming the frame on the inside of the frame rails would be the best, but hard to get to. The problem with covering the outside of the frame is that you can't see possible frame damage, cracks etc.

    I use a blue flame heater to supplement the forced air furnace in cold weather. One of the down falls of the blue flame is condensation. The biggest problem I have had with condensation has been ice forming around my slide outs effectively gluing the slides in the open position. I have a diesel generator and use it quite a bit to keep my trailer a comfortable temp without draining my batteries down.

    I look forward to seeing how well our new Solitude does in cold weather, but I really wish I would have got the dual pane windows. I am going to explore a window film from 3m that is applied to the inside of the windows that is supposed to equal the thermal effectiveness of dual pane windows.
    2023 GMC 3500HD CCLB DRW Duramax L5P, Banks Derringer/Idash/CAI 60 gallon fuel transfer tank
    2018 Solitude 310GK with Kodiak disc brakes 4000 lb Dexter springs, frame stiffeners
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  8. #8
    Long Hauler Canyonlight's Avatar
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    Dallas - since DW and I are looking at different GDRV models and she really likes the 376, a thought entered my modest cranial space the other day about the cold temps. in the garage area of the 376 in cold weather camping and the effects on the bedroom temperature. I do not recall if the garage space is or can be heated with the 376 furnace but if not, it would seem that the cold garage air temps in more extreme or longer periods of even moderate cold weather would affect the bed/bedroom temperatures and comfort.

    What has been your experience ?

    Dan
    Dan & Carol
    2014 303RLS Reflection #185 (10/2013 build)
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  9. #9
    Long Hauler D2Reid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuffsaid View Post
    I haven't had the chance to see how well the Solitude does in the winter time yet,
    I have had several Solitude neighbors in very snowy conditions. They seem to perform well provided you take normal freezing temperature precautions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuffsaid View Post
    I am going to explore a window film from 3m that is applied to the inside of the windows that is supposed to equal the thermal effectiveness of dual pane windows.
    A couple of GD owners have done this. Here is a pretty good discussion on the subject.

    Crystalline Film vs Ceramic Fil



    Quote Originally Posted by Toes in the water View Post
    cold temps in the garage area of the 376 in cold weather camping and the effects on the bedroom temperature.
    What has been your experience ?
    Dan
    Dan I have to honestly admit that the bedroom tends to be a cool spot. There is one heater duct in the garage, front left corner on the floor. There is one heater duct in the BR, to the right of the slide and on the floor. They are the furthest away from the heater so don't get the best heat.

    I like sleeping cooler, DW abhors cool sleeping. So the way we work it is a dual zone electric blanket, I leave mine off, she cranks hers up. She also has a small electric cube heater that she puts next to her side of the bed. It does a great job of heating the bedroom. We only use it when dressing and undressing, she will put it in the bathroom when she is taking a shower. Fuzzy slippers help also.

    Now that I think about I should have put the remote thermometer near the door, I put it on top of my motorcycle seat. Anyway, the temps in the garage would get pretty cool, lowest I saw was 38, it was -3 outside. I don't have anything in the garage that would be destroyed should it freeze in there so wasn't too concerned about it.
    Dallas
    2017 Momentum 376TH, 2019 Ford F450, Dual Rear Wheel, 4x4, diesel.
    2015 Harley-Davidson Street, XG750

  10. #10
    Long Hauler Canyonlight's Avatar
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    Thanks, Dallas - much appreciated. It sounds like a manageable situation and that you and I and our DWs are in similar operational modes.

    Dan
    Dan & Carol
    2014 303RLS Reflection #185 (10/2013 build)
    2012 Silverado LTZ Crew Duramax 2500HD
    2700/16K Pullrite Superglide

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