Solitude 310GK-R Tongue Weight and SRW Towing

[Mark Virginia]

Hi,

I am a new member. I replied to an existing towing post with the following questions. Thought I would also try the Solitude forum. I am looking for real world load weights for a 310GK-R and also if anyone is towing with a SRW truck.

I have A Solitude 310GK-R on order. I am towing with a 2018 F350 Diesel that has a GVWR of 3800 lbs (SIngle Real Wheels with Short Bed and 20” wheels). I thought I had room to spare in terms of load. But I’ve seen estimates for the Solitude tongue weight loaded from 2800 up to 3600 mentioned on this site. 3600 Lbs would put me in an overload situation.

I can handle up to 3200 or so, unless I leave the dog and wife at home, which is not an option. What is a realistic load for the Solitude? If I do the math and assume 23% tongue weight and 14K lb load, that’s a little over 3200 Lbs, which I think I can handle. But the 310 residential package includes two batteries up front, which adds even more to the tongue weight.

I am so concerned now about load that I am thinking about cancelling the Solitude order and going with something lighter. Is anyone towing the 310GK-R with a SRW truck? What is your tongue weight?

I really love the 310....Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

Mark
Northern Virginia

[CoChris]

Hi Mark and welcome to the forums. Use the search function (upper right corner of each page) and you will find lots of information and replies, and of course opinions. Nuffsaif just posted his weights with some of his modifications (genset in pickup bed, etc). He has a 310GK (I think it is the RV refrig) and his 1 ton SRW TV. I will try to post a link https://www.mygrandrv.com/...Weights-with-310GK-and-2017-Silverado-3500-HD-SRW .

I also have a 2018 310GK (RV refrig) and tow with a 2017 F350 SRW. There are many different weight ratings (payload, GVWR, GCWR, max tow rating) that all come into play. Generally the limiter for towing a 5th wheel is the payload rating, which is simply the GVWR - weight of the truck. YOU CAN NOT GO BY THE NUMBER IN THE FORD TOWING GUIDE. Sorry for shouting, but this is a common mistake (and many salesman are happy to push the number). Look at the yellow load sticker on the drivers door jam for your maximum payload and rear axle weight rating. If the 3,800# you listed is YOUR trucks payload rating, you will have to watch what you put in the truck and how you load the trailer, but you should be doable. Mine is 3,253#.

You will generally find the payload is far less than the rear axle weight rating RAWR (which is the rating for the less of springs, axle and tires). In my case the (RAWR - empty weight) on the rear axle is almost 1,000# higher than the payload rating. You have to decide if you want to be below both, exceed one or if you are comfortable exceeding both. I chose the middle. As people will tell you, the only way to know your weights for certain is to run YOUR combination across a scales. That does not help if you do not have the trailer, and to late if you do. I am trying to get my numbers together for my truck and trailer and will post them, but I only have one set of weights empty (but 377# of water + battery + full propane tanks) after picking it up from the dealer. My pin weight was 2,380#. I figure the water (mixture of mostly fresh and a little black and gray) only took about 27# of my pin.

Search, keep asking questions and make your own decision
Good luck and enjoy your new trailer

Chris

[Mark Virginia]

Thanks for the reply Chris. So you’re using axle rating as the primary limiting factor? I know the tires are rated at 3800 lbs each. So they can handle it assuming the load is doubled for two tires. Axle is rated at 6340, so that’s not an issue. So why do you think payload is so low, relatively speaking?

Btw...my truck is on order as well. I know we’re crazy to do both at once. But that’s how it turned out. So I have no choice but to use Ford specs. Have you had any issues towing the 310? Did you go with 20” wheels and which hitch are you using? I’m looking at the PullRite slider. Is the truck squatting much?

Thanks for the feedback,

Mark

[Mark Virginia]

Chris,

You answered all my questions. Thanks for taking the time.

Mark

[CoChris]

The payload rating is artificial (legal, political, sales, ??? take your guess). The payload rating is the GVWR - the actual truck weight (which includes things like options, fuel, people. For a 2017/2018 F350 the GRWR is 10,000, 11,400 or 11,500# for a 1 ton. 11,500 is the default. If you add the axle (which is the least of the wheel, tire, springs and axle limits), you come up with a higher number. In my case it is 11,500# GVWR vs 13,220# (5,990 + 7,230# AWR). My tires are 18" AT and are rated at 3,640 each, so that is probably the limiter for the RAWR). Axle rating is not specifically listed, but the Dana M275 is good for way over 6,340 or 7,230#.

I have only towed it 4 times. Once from the dealer (~65 miles on the interstate), camping near home last weekend (~10 miles each way all back roads) and to the storage lot (~20 miles mostly interstate). We have some really nasty winds, often cross wind during the tows and the truck and trailer did great. Not concerns about handling, stability, etc.

I have a long bed and went with the Fodr factory 5th wheel prep (puck system). I am using a BW 20k Companion (non-slider) hitch. Truck (as delivered from dealer and loaded with full tank of fresh water last weekend, squatted 3" in the rear (none in the front) and put it almost perfectly level. With the BW hitch set in the middle height (17-3/4"(?) above bed), the trailer to side rail clearance is 6" (min I want) and 5" over tailgate (less than I would like) and sitting 1-1/2" nose high (measuring front and rear of frame). Close, but I would like more rail/tailgate clearance and trailer a little more level. I want to see if it squats much more when everything is loaded up. If not I may consider raising the trailer 1" or possibly lowering the truck 1". Do not want the truck rear to be lower than the front.

Hope this helps

Chris

[SouthTX]

The payload rating is artificial (legal, political, sales, ??? take your guess). The payload rating is the GVWR - the actual truck weight (which includes things like options, fuel, people. For a 2017/2018 F350 the GRWR is 10,000, 11,400 or 11,500# for a 1 ton. 11,500 is the default. If you add the axle (which is the least of the wheel, tire, springs and axle limits), you come up with a higher number. In my case it is 11,500# GVWR vs 13,220# (5,990 + 7,230# AWR). My tires are 18" AT and are rated at 3,640 each, so that is probably the limiter for the RAWR). Axle rating is not specifically listed, but the Dana M275 is good for way over 6,340 or 7,230#.

I have only towed it 4 times. Once from the dealer (~65 miles on the interstate), camping near home last weekend (~10 miles each way all back roads) and to the storage lot (~20 miles mostly interstate). We have some really nasty winds, often cross wind during the tows and the truck and trailer did great. Not concerns about handling, stability, etc.

I have a long bed and went with the Fodr factory 5th wheel prep (puck system). I am using a BW 20k Companion (non-slider) hitch. Truck (as delivered from dealer and loaded with full tank of fresh water last weekend, squatted 3" in the rear (none in the front) and put it almost perfectly level. With the BW hitch set in the middle height (17-3/4"(?) above bed), the trailer to side rail clearance is 6" (min I want) and 5" over tailgate (less than I would like) and sitting 1-1/2" nose high (measuring front and rear of frame). Close, but I would like more rail/tailgate clearance and trailer a little more level. I want to see if it squats much more when everything is loaded up. If not I may consider raising the trailer 1" or possibly lowering the truck 1". Do not want the truck rear to be lower than the front.

Hope this helps

Chris

Chris - I fought this same battle recently and ended up lowering the rear end of the truck. Turned out to be relatively simple - especially compared to raising the FW. Here's a thread on it https://www.mygrandrv.com/fo...0+hitch+height

[HOWITTRO]

Hi Chris
I have a 2016 F350 Platinum single rear wheels with a GVWR of 11,500 as per door sticker. Are you saying that my GVWR is actually higher if I use the axle ratings. If so my rear axle is rated at 7200 and my front axle is rated at 6000. Does this mean my GVWR is 13,200?
Thanks
Bob

[SouthTX]

Hi Chris
I have a 2016 F350 Platinum single rear wheels with a GVWR of 11,500 as per door sticker. Are you saying that my GVWR is actually higher if I use the axle ratings. If so my rear axle is rated at 7200 and my front axle is rated at 6000. Does this mean my GVWR is 13,200?
Thanks
Bob

GVWR never changes - it is what you are taxed on. If you live in certain states where the registration cost is based on GVWR, most manufacturers offer an optional (lower) GVWR. Same truck, just a lower GVWR and lower cost to register. Unless you are a commercial operator, exceeding the GVWR will damage only your conscience.

The individual axle weights should not be exceeded. Generally, axle weights are the lower of tire, axle or suspension ratings.

[CWSWine]

Here is some info on using Axle Weights instead of GVWR.

By Bob Raybuck
Director of Technical Services
NTEA
Often, GVWR and gross vehicle weight (GVW) are thought to be the same, but they are not. A truck’s GVWR is the maximum weight rating established by the chassis manufacturer. GVW is the total weight of the truck and payload at a point in time.

There’s a common misconception that a truck’s GVWR is determined by adding gross axle weight ratings (GAWRs) together for all axles. Although this was a common way of calculating GVWR many years ago, it’s no longer an accurate method. The chassis manufacturer task of establishing a vehicle GVWR is much more difficult today due to advancement of safety system standards and how vehicles meet these requirements. This is why many trucks have a GVWR much lower than the combined axle ratings. It is not uncommon for a truck with a GVWR of 19,500 pounds to have a front axle rated at 7,500 pounds and a rear axle rated at 14,700 pounds. Safety standards that apply to braking, vehicle stability, and chassis manufacturer internal standards for durability, dynamic stability and handling can restrict GVWR even though the sum of the axle ratings exceeds 22,000 pounds. In this instance, the OEM set the GVWR at 19,500 pounds based on test results and vehicle dynamic performance to ensure a safe, reliable truck.

By Bob Raybuck
Director of Technical Services
NTEA “

https://drivewyze.com/blog/trucking-...g-work-trucks/

https://www.ntea.com/NTEA/Member_ben...rk_trucks.aspx

https://www.usspecial.com/2018/01/page/13/

http://procontractorrentals.com/page...iderations.php

https://www.worktruckonline.com/1457...um-net-payload

This statement shows up in Manufactures towing guides and Manufactures Owner Manual.

“5th-Wheel Towing Notes:
This information also applies to models with pickup box delete option (66D). Trailer kingpin load weight should be 15% of total loaded trailer weight. Make sure that the vehicle payload (reduced by option weight) will accommodate trailer kingpin load weight and the weight of passengers and cargo added to the towing vehicle. The addition of trailer kingpin load weight, and the weight of passengers and cargo, must not cause vehicle weights to exceed the rear GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating) or GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating). These ratings can be found on the vehicle’s Safety Compliance Certification LabeL”

On Page 30

https://www.ford.com/services/assets...Duty&year=2018

Hi Chris
I have a 2016 F350 Platinum single rear wheels with a GVWR of 11,500 as per door sticker. Are you saying that my GVWR is actually higher if I use the axle ratings. If so my rear axle is rated at 7200 and my front axle is rated at 6000. Does this mean my GVWR is 13,200?
Thanks
Bob

[CoChris]

Hi Chris
I have a 2016 F350 Platinum single rear wheels with a GVWR of 11,500 as per door sticker. Are you saying that my GVWR is actually higher if I use the axle ratings. If so my rear axle is rated at 7200 and my front axle is rated at 6000. Does this mean my GVWR is 13,200?
Thanks
Bob

Howittro - The above replies pretty much cover GVWR and axle ratings. The GVWR is whatever the manufacture printed on your official door sticker and only the manufacture can change it (which they never will). My personal take (nothing official) is the GVWR is a **general** representation of a trucks capability. It is very handy to compare different classes for trucks (1/2 ton vs 3/4 ton vs 1 ton SRW vs 1 ton DRW). It is also used for legal purposes and may effect your taxes/license fees. Violating it by a little **may** have legal consequences (ticket or ??) if you are ever checked. The axle ratings, as SouthTX said, the axle weight ratings are the least of many separate components (tires, wheels, axles, springs frame, etc). While engineers design in margin on each part, exceeding the axle weight rating is **in my opinion** is risky as you are cutting into YOUR safety margin. You should do what YOU are comfortable with.

Chris