Can I pull a Reflection303RLS with 2017 F250 diesel 4x4.

[dwilder15]

I am due to pick up my new 5th wheel next week. I figured i was well within my weight restrictions but after doing all the numbers i am not.
My truck GVWR is 10,000. The truck payload capacity is 2004. The truck weighs 8220 with me in it. The front axle weighs 4820 (5200 GAWR), rear axle3400 (6340 GAWR). The uvw on the GD 303RLS is 9265, with a pin weight of 1695 (unloaded). Truck can pull 14,700. The number that puts me over is the truck payload capacity. I plan on using the B & W companion slider hitch which weighs around 260. I will be over by at least 500 lbs. Do i need to upgrade my truck to a 350?

[howson]

Do i need to upgrade my truck to a 350?

You'll get as many opinions as there are forum members to this question. What I will tell you is I was in almost the exact same position (owned a 2017 Platinum F-250 w/6.7). I wanted to pull a 315RLTS with a Honda Goldwing in the truck's bed--but came to realize I was way over the payload ratings. Took me almost seven months, but I finally decided to get a DRW so I'd never (hopefully) have to worry about payload ratings again. Cost me ~$5K to make the switch, but the peace of mind is worth it (to me). Click on my user name (and "View Profile") and you'll see both trucks sitting in my driveway. The pic was taken before the dealer drove away in my 250.

In your case, a 350 SRW appears perfectly suited to your towing needs. You obviously understand all the numbers and how they work.

[backtrack2015]

That's a judgement call: do you want to be legal? An F350 SRW would be 100% legal. Just make sure you get the 5600# or 5990# front axle. I have the 5200# front axle and have been as close as 5160# on the CAT scale with 4 people in the cab and the fifth-wheel attached.


EDIT: By "legal" I really should have said "defensible in court" to better articulate the GVWR issue. It seems GVWR isn't something the authorities care about except for registration. That being said, any civil lawyer could see your payload sticker of 2004 and compare that against the unloaded pin weight (1695) + hitch (260) + driver (assume 150) and see that the payload was exceeded (2105 best case). Thus you could be in a tough spot from a liability point of view if you get in a wreck. My understanding from other threads here is that most of these cases are settled out-of-court which is why we don't hear about them.

[jkwilson]

Not an issue. The 10,000lb payload is a made-up number on 250s in order to allow commercial users to stay under the DOT requirements. Go by axle weight capacity. There is virtually no difference in a 250 SRW and 350 SRW other than available options.

[SouthTX]

Yes, lots of *opinions* on what is the limiting factor.

My opinion is that GVWR - which is an option assigned by the mfgr - is purely for licensing and registration. For instance, if my F350 GVWR were not derated to 11,500 it would require me to have a class A license to pull my 14,000 RV. As long as you're not operating commercially, you won't be crossing scales so GVWR makes no difference.

OTOH, I believe that the limiting factor for pulling a fifth wheel - where 99% of the weight in on the rear axle - is the rear axle payload, the difference between RGAWR and rear axle empty weight.

With all that said, I pulled my 337RLS, which is similar to the 303 except it has a large front closet and higher pin weight, with a gasser F250. The pin weight of 3150 put me about 100# over the RGAWR, but it pulled it just fine. The diesel F350 pulls it even better and if I have my druthers I'd go with the diesel and F350 every time. Sometimes we don't have our druthers, though.

I wouldn't worry about the tow ratings - that 6.7L diesel will pull a house. Just don't exceed the axle ratings unless you like to change tires.

Does your F250 have the camper package? That adds a spring leaf and substantially increases the rear axle payload. Also, the manufacturer's pin weight is a fairy tale. Most GD owners report their pin weight is around 23% of their actual weight. You'll probably be pushing 2400 - 2500 #.

If you're close on payload, the Andersen hitch is 35# and has other advantages besides less weight.

[dwilder15]

Truck has high capacity trailer tow package. So is the rear axle 6340 GVWR reflective of that added package?

[klenger]

I hope I'm not fanning the flames here, but it makes my skin crawl to hear the word "legal" used in this context. At least in CO and AZ, I am not aware of any laws that prohibit recreational towing above the GVWR and GCWR. These numbers are specifications, not laws. My personal opinion is to build an RV system (trailer and truck) that is within these numbers, and mine are. If I was to go with a modest 5th wheel (29RS??), I'd be facing the same issue as the original poster and would need to ask the same question. I suspect it would cost me upwards of $15,000 to trade up to a new 3500 Ram, so I would have to seriously consider exceeding the numbers. I hope you find a solution you can work with.

[andrew]

You can go over to the Ford 2017 Superduty forum and see a lot of discussion on the differences between the f250 and 350. I concluded that a set of overload springs on the rear axle is the difference between the f250 and 350 which allows them to derate the rear axle for the legal reasons cited above as well as others. The springs don’t normally make contact but probably do under heavy load. Some put other springs or airbags in to compensate. Some claim the rear axles are different but others claim to have ordered rear axles for both trucks and they have the same part number. My 303 does have a pin weight of ~2500 lbs so that is a real number you will have to deal with. You have to decide how important the sticker number is to you. Lot’s of people pull 303s with f250s (or equiv).

[CWSWine]

There is a lot of opinions about exceeding the GVWR but here are facts in writing put out by the manufactures. There also a lot of opinions whether or not there are any legal ramifications exceed the GVWR so I consulted a lawyer and I believe in case of an accident there could be legal ramifications.

The statement below appeared 7 times between my owners manual and towing guides.

“5th-Wheel Towing Notes:
This information also applies to models with pickup box delete option (66D). Trailer kingpin load weight should be 15% of total loaded trailer weight. Make sure that the vehicle payload (reduced by option weight) will accommodate trailer kingpin load weight and the weight of passengers and cargo added to the towing vehicle. The addition of trailer kingpin load weight, and the weight of passengers and cargo, must not cause vehicle weights to exceed the rear GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating) or GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating). These ratings can be found on the vehicle’s Federal Safety Compliance Certification LabeL
On Page 30
http://https://www.ford.com/services...Duty&year=2018

GMC even went a little further and list some and I quoted GMC webpage "severe consequences" for exceeding GVWR.
https://www.gmc.com/gmc-life/how-to/understanding-gross-vehicle-weight-rating

[LTM417]

To answer your question, yes you can. I have a 2015 F250 4x4 Diesel SuperCab SWB with heavy springs. I previously had a truck camper that weighed about 1,800 pounds. Stock, that made the truck squat quite a bit. To avoid installing airbags, I put Torklift Stableload spacers between the lower overload springs and the main leafs. That nearly eliminated the squat and I had no problems carrying the truck camper for four years. When I was ready to move up to a fifth wheel, I thought I checked the specs and determined that I was OK towing the 303. Anyway, I bought the 303 this year. I left the Torklift spacers in place and my truck squats less with the 303 than it did with the truck camper. I have no problems climbing steep hills and the combination of tow/haul, exhaust brake, and trailer brakes allows descending with no drama.