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  1. #11
    Site Sponsor Cate&Rob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveandLeann View Post
    I have received mixed responses from dealerships and Ford Motor Company. One response was that the GVWR should not exceed 70% of the 7700 lbs since the maximum tow capacity calculation did not account for towing trailers cross-country - he said that 5000 lb should be the maximum tow weight. The second person said that I should be fine pulling 6700 lbs. . . . I am very confused at this point, and I would appreciate any insight! Leann
    Hi Leann & Dave

    My experience is that you do not need to “de-rate” the Ford spec numbers for cross country towing. This is old information from someone who is not up-to-date on new trucks. We tow thousands of miles every year with our F150 at its spec limit. Ours is a 3.5L Ecoboost with HDPP suspension package . . . but there is no reason to think that Ford would use a different logic on the specs they publish for your truck.

    Rob
    Cate & Rob
    2015 Reflection 303RLS

  2. #12
    Long Hauler
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    Quote Originally Posted by f100owner View Post
    We just got back into RVs a couple of years ago and started small. There was never any doubt our expedition with heavy duty towing package could handle the 4500 pound 21 foot zinger. Prior to that, several years ago, we had a 27 foot salem bunkhouse with no slides. It weighed about 5500 pounds. I was towing it with super duty fords. Again never an issue. Now we jumped into the middle of this 2800bh without really researching, just saying oh, yeah our expedition will tow it. On paper it will, but not with the margins we have had in the past.
    Expeditions and all SUV's are relatively heavy vehicles without the rigs they tow. Frames have to be extra beefy to keep the bodies from flexing and causing wind noise and body creaking/noises. When you add 2.3 children, the wife, all their junk and a full load of fuel, there's often not nearly much weight carrying and trailer towing capabilities left over. I've had an Expedition, and it didn't have the suspension anything like a F150's Max Tow Package--but rather softly spring.

  3. #13
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    Real-world, ready to camp tongue weight will probably be in the 800# range. You will need a weight distribution hitch.
    So the truck is a crew cab. How many people are you hauling?
    My gut feel - if it's only 2 people you're probably OK on the weight but you'll be underpowered on steep grades. I'm spoiled with our 3.5 Ecoboost and am looking to go to a F250 for the next truck.
    2019 F-250 Supercab
    2017 Imagine 2650RK

  4. #14
    Site Sponsor jw^2 family's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveandLeann View Post
    Thanks! I have read the threads and we will start the calculations soon...It may just be me, but it shouldn't be this hard.....
    I think that part of what makes it seem so hard is the way that both truck and trailer manufacturers advertise weights and capacities.

    For example, truck manufacturers will advertise that the latest model year is "available with up to _____-lbs. tow rating." The problem with advertising this way is two fold; 1) there are actually five different capacities that must be considered in order to determine a truck's true towing capacity - gross vehicle weight rating (a.k.a. payload), gross axle weight rating - front, gross axle weight rating - rear, gross combined weight rating, and hitch receiver rating; and 2) the "tow rating" listed in advertisements doesn't match up to any of these five capacities (except maybe the hitch receiver rating). It's also difficult to check these five capacities when browsing the dealer's lot because the driver's side door has to be unlocked in order to find the first four numbers, and you have to crawl under the back of the truck to find the fifth number. On top of this the advertised "tow ratings" often disregard the realities of towing that are clearly outlined in the manufacturer's towing guides. I'll use Ford as an example because I like them (so as to not appear that I'm picking on them): Advertisements for the 2019 F-150 indicate that it's available with a tow rating of up to 13,200-lbs. Any towing guide will indicate that for conventional towing (travel trailer; not fifth wheel), the trailer's tongue weight should be between 10% and 15% of the trailer's weight. So for a 13,200-lbs. trailer 15% tongue weight would be 1,980-lbs. Are there really any F-150s rolling off the assembly line with a hitch receiver rated for that kind of tongue weight?

    Trailer manufacturers aren't without fault in their advertising tactics either. Trailers are advertised with average unloaded weights and unloaded tongue weights, and then the gross weight rating is thrown in to suggest how much cargo carrying capacity the trailer will have. All of this can be very misleading in two ways; 1) unloaded weights are almost meaningless because other than the trip from the manufacturing plant to the dealer, the trailers will almost never be towed empty; and 2) "average" unloaded weights don't reflect the actual unloaded weight of any single unit. When we ordered our 2018 Imagine 2800BH, the brochure from the dealer listed an average unloaded vehicle weight of 5,885-lbs. There was no way of knowing what the actual unloaded weight of our unit would be until it arrived on the dealer's lot and we looked at the sticker on the side of the trailer. To our surprise our unit rolled out of the factory at a portly 6,564-lbs. (11.5% heavier than the advertised "average"), which had the unfortunate consequence of putting our trailer's actual cargo carrying capacity at 931-lbs. instead of the anticipated 1,610-lbs. (42% less than the advertised CCC).

    Truck manufacturers could be more helpful by being transparent with all of the capacities that are relevant to towing instead of advertising "tow ratings" that don't match any actual ratings. Trailer manufacturers could be more helpful by emphasizing gross weight ratings and reminding consumers to expect realistic actual weights and tongue weights instead of meaningless average empty weights. Salesmen for both trucks and trailers could be more helpful by becoming educated about how weights and capacities really work instead of throwing out advertising numbers just to make a sale.

    Good thing this forum exists to help untangle the mess!
    Joe & Joy + children
    2018 Imagine 2800BH
    2022 F250 Crew Cab 4x4 Tremor, 7.3L V8
    Equal-i-zer 1,200/12,000 lb. hitch


  5. #15
    Seasoned Camper
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    Agree on marketing vs. reality approach to selling trucks and campers.
    My salesman for my vehicles, just references the listed tow weight in the Ford Towing Guide (7700 for the F150 and 9200 for the Expedition) and asks how much does the camper weigh. The salesman for the RV makes note of those same numbers when saying "no problem."
    Will be interested to see what my 2800BH weighs when I pick it up today. Did not consider that their on-line/posted specifications would deviate much from real world delivery.

  6. #16
    Big Traveler CWSWine's Avatar
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    Here is a picture of the J2807 towing standards trailer they test with. It can be adjusted for 10% tongue weight. The first thing I noticed was the low center of gravity and the aerodynamics of the test trailer. Sure would be a lot easier towing that trailer rather than a huge box on wheels.


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Dennis & Ellie
    Current 2017 Newmar Ventana Class A & 1994 Airstream Excella Classic Limited Project
    Sold - 310-GK-R Delivered 28 Oct 2016
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  7. #17
    Long Hauler DaveMatthewsBand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by f100owner View Post
    We just got back into RVs a couple of years ago and started small. There was never any doubt our expedition with heavy duty towing package could handle the 4500 pound 21 foot zinger. Prior to that, several years ago, we had a 27 foot salem bunkhouse with no slides. It weighed about 5500 pounds. I was towing it with super duty fords. Again never an issue. Now we jumped into the middle of this 2800bh without really researching, just saying oh, yeah our expedition will tow it. On paper it will, but not with the margins we have had in the past.

    If you do end up going with a SD... skip the F250 and get the F350. Many here would advise the same.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Resistance is Not Futile, It's Voltage Divided by Current.


  8. #18
    Site Sponsor Jerryr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveMatthewsBand View Post
    If you do end up going with a SD... skip the F250 and get the F350. Many here would advise the same.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Best advice. Skip the 250, the 350 rides the same and gives you an extra 1,000 lbs of payload.
    Jerry & Linda
    Emma & Abby our Mini Golden Doodles & JR our Amazon Parrot
    2017 Reflection 337RLS, Build Date 01/2017, Titan Disk Brakes, Goodyear G614s 235/85/16 G Rated tires
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    http://visitedstatesmap.com/image/FLGANCSCsm.jpg

  9. #19
    Left The Driveway
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerryr View Post
    Best advice. Skip the 250, the 350 rides the same and gives you an extra 1,000 lbs of payload.
    Unless you live in Massachusetts. Before we moved from Washington our 2008 Ram 3500 DRW, slide in camper and cargo trailer were easily registered and insured. Massachusetts classifies any vehicle with a GVWR over 10100 lbs or more than 4 wheels as a commercial vehicle. Wasn't too big an issue for me until we sold the slide in camper and bought the 2600RB. Geico would insure the truck, but does not offer RV insurance in Massachusetts. Add to that the vehicle towing the camper has to be the insured vehicle. That meant we couldn't insure it with our Toyota 4Runner. I found an agent that worked with the underwriter to insure both vehicles and the camper on one policy. The truck is only for personal use and mostly to tow the camper. I plan to go down to a 3/4 ton truck and thus be back into a personal auto category. A plus to that is registration is every 2 years and I can once again have veteran plates.

    Doug

  10. #20
    Site Sponsor Jerryr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy Bear View Post
    Unless you live in Massachusetts. Before we moved from Washington our 2008 Ram 3500 DRW, slide in camper and cargo trailer were easily registered and insured. Massachusetts classifies any vehicle with a GVWR over 10100 lbs or more than 4 wheels as a commercial vehicle. Wasn't too big an issue for me until we sold the slide in camper and bought the 2600RB. Geico would insure the truck, but does not offer RV insurance in Massachusetts. Add to that the vehicle towing the camper has to be the insured vehicle. That meant we couldn't insure it with our Toyota 4Runner. I found an agent that worked with the underwriter to insure both vehicles and the camper on one policy. The truck is only for personal use and mostly to tow the camper. I plan to go down to a 3/4 ton truck and thus be back into a personal auto category. A plus to that is registration is every 2 years and I can once again have veteran plates.

    Doug
    Doug,

    You can always order a F350 with the free optional 10,000 GVWR. That way you get advantages of the 350 upgraded suspension without the commercial registration requirement.

    Oh course that won’t help with a DRW.
    Jerry & Linda
    Emma & Abby our Mini Golden Doodles & JR our Amazon Parrot
    2017 Reflection 337RLS, Build Date 01/2017, Titan Disk Brakes, Goodyear G614s 235/85/16 G Rated tires
    2022 F-450 King Ranch Ultimate, 4,868 lb Payload, Bedrug Bedliner, Andersen Ultimate II Aluminum 5th wheel hitch
    http://visitedstatesmap.com/image/FLGANCSCsm.jpg

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