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  1. #21
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    Wires being installed haphazardly may not be a huge deal in the “grand” scheme of things. But in Rob’s case, his power cable is nicked and chaffed which cannot be ignored. That’s a big fire risk.
    The question is, how did the damage occur? From the install or from the power feed rubbing on framing or udercarriage components.
    Now knowing this, It’s almost incumbent for the rest of us to drop the ccoroplast and inspect. The fact that wires are attached using inadequate wire nuts and electrical tape (that is failing) should strike fear in all of us.
    Last edited by minnow101; 12-25-2018 at 05:08 AM.
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  2. #22
    Site Sponsor Cate&Rob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minnow101 View Post
    It’s almost incumbent for the rest of us to drop the ccoroplast and inspect.
    As much as it seems that this should not be necessary if "everything is working fine" . . . I would agree with minnow101.

    Rather than even zip ties, or chafe protection and proper clips, the method of "securing" the 120VAC wiring appears to be a shot of foam where the wires pass through the steel structure. Over time and miles, this foam breaks . . . and now the wires are laying on the steel. See attached pictures

    This is one of those projects where "worrying about it" is more agonizing than just taking a day or two and making it right . . . sort of like the many "do I have to pull my drums to know if I have greased brakes?". Some chafe protection conduit and a bag of zip ties will solve all of this . . . more pictures on this later.

    The cuts in my main power cable do not appear to be chafe related . . . this looks more like tears/cuts acquired during manufacturing. I am just lucky than none of the cuts to bare copper L1 or L2 line up with a metal frame component!

    Rob
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_3871.jpg   IMG_3868.jpg  
    Cate & Rob
    2015 Reflection 303RLS

  3. #23
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Wiring laying on moving parts of the slide mechanism. Wonder how long it would take to rub through that Romex. Probably quite a while since it looks to be well greased.
    It was hard not to chop all of the wiring out and start over. If I had a shop big enough to put my trailer inside, that would be a project I'd tackle. As it is, I spent several days removing excess wiring, re-terminating, untying knots and supporting cabling.
    GDRV plays pretty fast and loose when it comes to wiring and electrical safety. Seems like a poor place to cut a corner.

  4. #24
    Site Sponsor gbkims's Avatar
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    Besides wires all over, found one slide actuator had been jammed or over torqued.
    Actuator motor hanging at an angle was first clue. Fixed it and the cause.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Brackets & mount straightened, don't have the distant pict.
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    Last edited by gbkims; 12-25-2018 at 12:45 PM. Reason: spelling
    - Gene

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  5. #25
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    Making Progress

    Things are looking a little better after a few hours of “tidying”

    Every wire or cable followed a random over/under twisting maze . . . it is difficult to imagine how anyone even puts something together like this.
    First I extracted the three 120V lines (they have plug together connectors . . . which I am replacing (part of where this whole boondoggle started)
    Then I undid the three coax connections . . . every one was loose
    I cut the brake light wires (because I want to tap into these anyway for some new brake/tail lights)

    I started by straightening out the bundle of 12V and speaker wires as best I could. 12 speaker wires and power to the sound system and fridge (that I really didn’t want to cut & reconnect) Kind of “bunched up at the turn around, but not too bad.

    Next came the coax, routing these past the connection point to the slide into an open area, coiling the excess in each and zip tying these.

    Then came the 120V lines. I used standard replacement cord connectors. Not exactly “correct” for solid copper wire, but the internal wire clamps secured nicely to this wire. Better than the press together connectors used by Grand Design (in my opinion)

    Every place that wiring goes over a sharp metal edge, I put a piece of wiring conduit on the metal edge. I also secured the wiring nearby so that it cannot work against this edge.

    Everything is positioned . . . and I used lots of zip ties . . . but I will likely add more .

    It would have been easier (and neater) to have done this right in the first place. Having to accommodate the extra length of wire/cable on circuits I didn’t want to cut and re-splice is a PITA.

    I also reconnected the manual slide drive rod. A 1” 10-24 (3/16 dia) bolt and a nyloc nut (that would be good to carry in your spare parts box).

    More to follow . . .

    Rob
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_3873.jpg   IMG_3876.jpg   IMG_3875.jpg  
    Cate & Rob
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  6. #26
    Site Sponsor gbkims's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cate&Rob View Post
    Things are looking a little better after a few hours of “tidying”

    Every wire or cable followed a random over/under twisting maze . . . it is difficult to imagine how anyone even puts something together like this.
    First I extracted the three 120V lines (they have plug together connectors . . . which I am replacing (part of where this whole boondoggle started)
    Then I undid the three coax connections . . . every one was loose
    I cut the brake light wires (because I want to tap into these anyway for some new brake/tail lights)

    I started by straightening out the bundle of 12V and speaker wires as best I could. 12 speaker wires and power to the sound system and fridge (that I really didn’t want to cut & reconnect) Kind of “bunched up at the turn around, but not too bad.

    Next came the coax, routing these past the connection point to the slide into an open area, coiling the excess in each and zip tying these.

    Then came the 120V lines. I used standard replacement cord connectors. Not exactly “correct” for solid copper wire, but the internal wire clamps secured nicely to this wire. Better than the press together connectors used by Grand Design (in my opinion)

    Every place that wiring goes over a sharp metal edge, I put a piece of wiring conduit on the metal edge. I also secured the wiring nearby so that it cannot work against this edge.

    Everything is positioned . . . and I used lots of zip ties . . . but I will likely add more .

    It would have been easier (and neater) to have done this right in the first place. Having to accommodate the extra length of wire/cable on circuits I didn’t want to cut and re-splice is a PITA.

    I also reconnected the manual slide drive rod. A 1” 10-24 (3/16 dia) bolt and a nyloc nut (that would be good to carry in your spare parts box).

    More to follow . . .

    Rob
    Rob,

    Looking good!
    Like you say, would have been better done right 1st time.
    Thanks for the updates and the bolt and nylock idea.
    - Gene

    Kim & Gene
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    2017 Ram 3500 CC LB 4x2 6.7 CTD AISIN 3.73 DRW Auto Level Rear Air, BD3, Prodigy P3, Aux Tank

  7. #27
    Site Sponsor gbkims's Avatar
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    Rob,
    Also looks like you're a lot closer to NEC's Article 110: "Electrical equipment shall be installed in a neat and workmanlike manner."
    - Gene

    Kim & Gene
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    2017 Ram 3500 CC LB 4x2 6.7 CTD AISIN 3.73 DRW Auto Level Rear Air, BD3, Prodigy P3, Aux Tank

  8. #28
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    Rob
    I have a question or comment or observation for the 120 volt plug ends.
    On extension cords as well as plugs in the house I have noticed over time the connection gets a little weaker. I realize you will not be plugging and un-plugging these.
    Do you think over time this connection may become weak?

    Brian

    PS. It is great that you are not afraid to do these projects for repair and upgrading , but on Christmas Day? Take Cate out for dinner or a show , I'm sure she needs it being with out power all day

  9. #29
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    Hi Brian,

    These connectors might not be the “best” but they are what I could source easily. If I find better ones, I will change them out. I am not at all impressed with the press-together OE connectors . . . more to follow on that.

    I think extension cord plugs and receptacles wear out from repeated use and abuse. These connectors are locked together and held that way with a tape wrap. I don’t see any reason for this connection to get loose or wear out.

    The problem is connecting solid copper wire to stranded wire. I guess I could have used wire nuts . . . but I have previously expressed my view on wire nuts anywhere on an RV. These are forbidden in OEM wiring for cars, trucks and boats. These carry over from the NEC specs for building that don’t move. They have very low vibration resistance and have no place on something travelling down the road. (OK . . . I’ll put away my soapbox now )

    Rob
    Last edited by Cate&Rob; 12-25-2018 at 06:13 PM.
    Cate & Rob
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  10. #30
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    Why the Fireplace Quit

    As Gene identified way back . . . the Molex "press together" connectors used by Grand Design to join solid core "house" wire to the stranded core "extension cord" wire needed to span the flexible link to the movable slide . . . are less than robust.

    In our case the fireplace quit. A circuit tester on the fireplace outlet identified a missing neutral. Sure enough, the retaining clips between the two halfs of the Molex connector on the neutral (white wire) side were broken and the contacts were permanently spread apart. It looks like the connector received considerable bending force. Initially I thought this must have been from the original production assembly process . . . but, that was five years ago! Why has it worked until recently? Then, I got to thinking about that ball of wiring stuffed in there at the end of the slide inward travel. Hmmm . . . this may have happened more recently.

    In any case the new connectors are secured well out of the way of the travel path of the slide drive rack.

    Rob
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_3853.jpg  
    Cate & Rob
    2015 Reflection 303RLS

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