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  1. #1
    Rolling Along
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    Insulation calulator

    I found this calculator and entered some numbers just for fun. This was just an approximation of my 310GK based on my opinion of actual not advertised insulation values.

    https://www.builditsolar.com/Referen...s/HeatLoss.htm

    http://courses.washington.edu/arch34...ignments/R.pdf

    This is a listing of common building material R-values.

    Here is an article that talks about foil faced materials like used in our trailers and how their R-values are overly exaggerated.

    When I factor all of these things in and insert them into the btu calculator, it makes no sense to use the claimed R- value that ANY of the RV manufacturers supply, because they are grossly overstated.

    Based on numbers that I made a wild guess at, my trailer looses about 15,000 btu's at 0 degrees, and that number seems reasonable, but I think it is higher. Again, I think these big trailers should have a larger furnace for true 4 season use, and maybe a second furnace, like having two A/C units.
    2023 GMC 3500HD CCLB DRW Duramax L5P, Banks Derringer/Idash/CAI 60 gallon fuel transfer tank
    2018 Solitude 310GK with Kodiak disc brakes 4000 lb Dexter springs, frame stiffeners
    RETIRED Maint Supervisor, Certified Welder, ASE Master Tech, Owner tire shop

  2. #2
    Site Sponsor Cate&Rob's Avatar
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    Nuffsaid,

    This is an interesting exercise/calculation.

    The part not factored in by any of the RV insulation claims is the infiltration of outside air. There are cold drafts everywhere in our Reflection! It should not take anywhere near 30,000 BTUs to heat 300 or 400 sq ft of living space. Our Canadian S&B is about 2400 sq ft plus a finished basement . . . all heated quite comfortably with a 60,000 BTU furnace.

    I have read that the RV furnace will run full time at 0*F to maintain 70*F room temp. Below that, interior temperature begins to drop. “Arctic Package” is obviously marketing speak.

    Rob
    Cate & Rob
    2015 Reflection 303RLS

  3. #3
    Rolling Along
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cate&Rob View Post
    Nuffsaid,

    This is an interesting exercise/calculation.

    The part not factored in by any of the RV insulation claims is the infiltration of outside air. There are cold drafts everywhere in our Reflection! It should not take anywhere near 30,000 BTUs to heat 300 or 400 sq ft of living space. Our Canadian S&B is about 2400 sq ft plus a finished basement . . . all heated quite comfortably with a 60,000 BTU furnace.

    I have read that the RV furnace will run full time at 0*F to maintain 70*F room temp. Below that, interior temperature begins to drop. “Arctic Package” is obviously marketing speak.

    Rob
    When I was researching heat output at elevation, I stumbed across a statement that said there is a 4% reduction in btu output for every 1000 feet of elevation gain. If this is the case, where I am right now is 6000 feet so I would be losing 24% of rated btu's. The other part of this equation is that the furnace is rated at 35k btu's, but two ducts are going to the basement storage area and the belly. This was one of the reasons I wanted to spray foam the frame rails to hold heat in the belly area. When I get a chance, I will place a remote probe into the belly to see what temperature is holding down there. If the temperature is high enough, I could dampen the air flow there down to force more air into the trailer. I really think replacing the 35k furnace with a 42k furnace with the same dimensions would solve the issue in cold weather. From what I can see, the single pane windows are still the biggest factor in cold air coming in. Our Solitude doesn't have a lot of drafts now that I have properly adjusted the slides, but the slide out floors are always cold and if a felt pad would have been used over the foil barrier, we could gain about R-2 on the slide out floors. GD rates the foil at R-15, a total misrepresentation.
    2023 GMC 3500HD CCLB DRW Duramax L5P, Banks Derringer/Idash/CAI 60 gallon fuel transfer tank
    2018 Solitude 310GK with Kodiak disc brakes 4000 lb Dexter springs, frame stiffeners
    RETIRED Maint Supervisor, Certified Welder, ASE Master Tech, Owner tire shop

  4. #4
    Rolling Along
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    Here is a link to foil bubble wrap: https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com...ed-bubble-wrap
    2023 GMC 3500HD CCLB DRW Duramax L5P, Banks Derringer/Idash/CAI 60 gallon fuel transfer tank
    2018 Solitude 310GK with Kodiak disc brakes 4000 lb Dexter springs, frame stiffeners
    RETIRED Maint Supervisor, Certified Welder, ASE Master Tech, Owner tire shop

  5. #5
    Seasoned Camper chemist308's Avatar
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    I would think the Solitude 310 would do pretty well in the cold weather given how my Reflection 337 is holding up so far. Fortunately I've not seen 0 yet, but I did skirt it, put bubble wrapped foil in some of the windows and do balance between a space heater and the furnace. I've done well enough in the teens so far. But I am sweating the day I see 0 F or worse, negative temperatures...
    2018 Grand Design Reflection 337RLS
    2020 Ram 3500 SRW
    https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7803/4...56f2161a_m.jpg

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by chemist308 View Post
    I would think the Solitude 310 would do pretty well in the cold weather given how my Reflection 337 is holding up so far. Fortunately I've not seen 0 yet, but I did skirt it, put bubble wrapped foil in some of the windows and do balance between a space heater and the furnace. I've done well enough in the teens so far. But I am sweating the day I see 0 F or worse, negative temperatures...
    Overall I am pleased with the spray foam on the frame rails. I think it has kept the belly area much warmer and kept out most of the cold air intrusion. The floor on the living room slide out gets cold, 45-50 degrees, I don't think the foil under the carpet has much if any affect. If it would be easy to pull up the carpet, and cover the foil with some carpet padding, it might help a lot. Next on the list is the windows. I really wish I would have held out for dual pane. There is a HUGE amount of heat loss or cold intrusion from the windows. I have cut foil faced bubble wrap and covered 75% of the windows. It does a good job of keeping solar heat out, but as far as the cold goes there is a huge draft of cold air below the foil wrap on each window heading down. Much like the cold air that comes down a fire place chimney in the winter with no fire. If the bottom of the foil was sealed, as in a full length piece of velcro, it might help stop this influx of cold air. I have adjusted my slideouts and the drafts are pretty much gone. There are a couple of places where stuffing some soft insulation under the corners would help with drafts if it was windy because there is only one layer of weather striping between inside and outside. I think the roof is adequate, I haven't made covers for the vents yet. The one piece stairs create a heat sink of cold air coming through the metal that stays inside on the floor, not a huge deal. Next on my list is to see how well insulated the front wall of the basement storage area is. It is a shared wall with the generator compartment. The basement area has a heater vent that blows directly on the plumbing, but the basement itself doesn't seem to be as warm as it should be for such a small area, so cold has to be getting in somewhere. It is next on the list. Other than that I think I am making slow gains. This morning it was 18 degrees, not too cold. Heater actually turns off after running for a while.
    2023 GMC 3500HD CCLB DRW Duramax L5P, Banks Derringer/Idash/CAI 60 gallon fuel transfer tank
    2018 Solitude 310GK with Kodiak disc brakes 4000 lb Dexter springs, frame stiffeners
    RETIRED Maint Supervisor, Certified Welder, ASE Master Tech, Owner tire shop

  7. #7
    Site Sponsor Cate&Rob's Avatar
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    Nuffsaid,

    Another area that can use improvement is the overhang (under your bedroom closet). I think there is very little insulation in this area. (part of the reason that skirting makes a big improvement.

    Part of the wall insulation problem is the aluminum frame that has the outside skin attached to one side and the interior paneling attached to the other. There is no "thermal break" anywhere in this design. The quoted insulation values are for the foam in the frame spaces. The R value of an aluminum connection is near zero.

    I don't know about your Solitude, but I have recently discovered on my Reflection that there is absolutely no insulation (not even foil) above the coroplast aft of the water tank.

    Rob
    Cate & Rob
    2015 Reflection 303RLS

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cate&Rob View Post
    Nuffsaid,

    Another area that can use improvement is the overhang (under your bedroom closet). I think there is very little insulation in this area. (part of the reason that skirting makes a big improvement.

    Part of the wall insulation problem is the aluminum frame that has the outside skin attached to one side and the interior paneling attached to the other. There is no "thermal break" anywhere in this design. The quoted insulation values are for the foam in the frame spaces. The R value of an aluminum connection is near zero.

    I don't know about your Solitude, but I have recently discovered on my Reflection that there is absolutely no insulation (not even foil) above the coroplast aft of the water tank.

    Rob
    The Solitude is supposed to have insulation below the closet, but it is also supposed to have insulation under the front cap. When testing the trailer in the summer with a temp gun, the inside of the closet got very hot under the front cap, so I question whether the insulation stayed in place when the cap was installed. On my old Alumascape 30RKD fifth wheel, which by the way I still use for hunting camp, it had an all aluminum skin fairly thick too, aluminum studs and aluminum roof joists with solid foam insulation. I was expecting the Solitude to be better, but in reality with the trailers parked side by side in the heat of the summer, the Alumascape is cooler! The Alumascape has 50% less windows, but zero insulation above the coroplast. I have issues with it freezing water lines if I don't run the furnace. I added heat tape and insulation to the water lines above the coroplast and installed rigid insulation on the frame rails. I was going to spray foam the frame rails on it also, but the kit I bought didn't go quite as far as I thought it would. One interesting note about the Alumascape though, the interior paneling has a 3/8 inch foam attached to the back side, probably as a thermal barrier.
    So for now, one step at a time to stay warm in winter. At least I have never froze the Solitude up yet. I was doing some browsing yesterday though and it appears that the Suburban 42k furnace has the same exterior dimensions as the 35k, the blower does draw a few more amps, but that could make a big difference when the temp is down closer to 0
    2023 GMC 3500HD CCLB DRW Duramax L5P, Banks Derringer/Idash/CAI 60 gallon fuel transfer tank
    2018 Solitude 310GK with Kodiak disc brakes 4000 lb Dexter springs, frame stiffeners
    RETIRED Maint Supervisor, Certified Welder, ASE Master Tech, Owner tire shop

  9. #9
    Rolling Along
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    Maybe this is a solution to the single pane glass: http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1...gle%20Page.pdf
    2023 GMC 3500HD CCLB DRW Duramax L5P, Banks Derringer/Idash/CAI 60 gallon fuel transfer tank
    2018 Solitude 310GK with Kodiak disc brakes 4000 lb Dexter springs, frame stiffeners
    RETIRED Maint Supervisor, Certified Welder, ASE Master Tech, Owner tire shop

  10. #10
    Long Hauler
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    So I have been following your thread here and would like to comment.
    The 3m plastic on the windows will help tremendously , we use to have that on our mobile home we lived in years ago and it did make a huge difference in the winter.
    This stuff use to be available at stores so you could do yourself but I do not know if it still is.
    The key thing with the film is an air space , so I am not sure if installed on a RV window it will have enough space between the glass and the film. I would think the greater the space the greater the insulation factor.

    Brian

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