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  1. #1
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    Grand Design Imagine vs Lance for heavy use and 4 season camping

    Hi Grand Design owners!

    I've been reading this forum for a while now in doing research on rigs, and I know you're an extremely helpful group, so I'm hoping you can help with my question.

    We're looking to buy our second RV very soon, and we've got it narrowed down to Grand Design or Lance. Our current rig is a 2003 Keystone Cabana that we bought used. It's about 20 feet long but really doesn't have a good layout for our needs. (We're a couple in our mid-30s with two 50+ lb dogs.)

    We live in Colorado and like to do some winter camping, so Lance and Arctic Fox were the first manufacturers that caught my eye. Lance has some great floor plans in shorter lengths under 24 feet (the 1685 and 1995) that I think could work very well for us, and I've found some good prices on used ones a few years old. My preference is to buy used based on the horror stories I've heard about new TTs being in the shop for most of their first year of life to get warranty work done. Arctic Fox would probably honestly be our first choice, but our TV is a Tundra with about a 1200lb payload and 10,000lb towing capacity, which means I really don't want to actually tow more than 7k lbs with it, and the Arctic Foxes are heavy. Based on our TV towing capacity, payload and wheelbase, I figure we're limited to about a max of 5500lbs dry and 28 feet long. The shortest AF has a floor plan I just don't like, so that leaves Lance.

    But then .... there's Grand Design. My parents bought a Reflection fifth wheel and got me looking at the brand, and despite the fact that it doesn't seem as good for 4 season use as the Lance, I love the look and feel of the trailers and the fact that they really seem to stand behind their product. The specific floorplan I'm looking at for us is the Imagine 2250RK, since another of our requirements is that we must be able to access the fridge, bathroom and bedroom with the slide IN. Their shortest Imagine doesn't quite work for us, but the 2250RK does. Unfortunately we'd have to buy it new, because that floorplan was new in 2018, so there aren't any used ones on the market.

    My main questions, if you've made it this far, are these:

    1. For those who spend lots of time in their TTs, how important is more/less space? We love national and state parks and want to keep our length short enough that we can get into almost anywhere, so 28 feet for the 2250RK feels long. However, we're looking at spending 3+ months at a time in this rig for extended travel, so the floor plan of the GD does look very tempting. With different sleep schedules (DH is up later than I am, and I'm the early bird with the dogs) I can also really see the benefit.

    2. For towing, same question as above - how important is length? I want to be able to tow this rig myself when I travel solo, and I don't have a ton of towing experience. How much scarier is it to maneuver a 24 foot or 28 foot TT over a 20 foot? I'm less concerned with towing on roads and more with getting around gas stations and around tight corners, etc.

    3. For those who have bought Grand Design Imagines new, what's the experience like? I see a lot on here about Momentum, Solitude and Reflection, but almost nothing about the Imagines. Has the QC held up in that line as well? I want to be reasonably sure that our new TT won't be in the shop for the first year that we own it. We have lots of travel planned! Understanding of course that all manufacturers will have some defects - just want to minimize as much as we can.

    4. Has anyone owned both a Lance and a GD who can weigh in on quality and also suitability for 4 season use? I LOVE all the windows in the GD we're looking at, but they aren't dual-paned, and I'm guessing that makes a pretty big difference with noise and with heat/cold. I've also seen lots about the low point drains freezing up in the GD. Not sure if this is also an issue for Lance but I don't think so. I'm not sure how much this will impact our decision, since we could make some mods to the GD or just deal with not having running water when we winter camp, but having a comfortable inside temperature and propane use are definite considerations.

    5. Has anyone spent extended periods of time in an Imagine? If so, how have they held up? I don't see anything about people full timing in them necessarily, but I'd love to know how they do with heavy use. Have people needed to replace brakes/axles/springs to be more heavy duty?

    Thanks SO much to anyone who can weigh in on even a small portion of the above! There's so much information out there but my questions about Lance vs GD are so specific that I haven't really been able to find the answers I'm looking for yet.

    Sarah

  2. #2
    King Pin
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    Hi Sarah and welcome to the forum. I can add a little insight to a couple of your questions.

    1. Space - Over the years, I've owned travel trailers from 20' in length to our current 34 foot Reflection 297 RSTS. Ginnie and I travel for 3-4 months out of the year. Having that extra space is luxurious. We have dogs too. Since I'm the early bird, I get up and take care of them while she sleeps. That extra space allows for a lot of noise reduction and additional snoozing. And like I said, our unit is 34 feet long, and we can get into most parks. When you exceed 35 feet, you can start to run into length restrictions.

    2. Towing to me is towing. Whether it's a 34 footer or a 20 footer. Within a very short time, you'll get a feel for the added length and won't have second thoughts about it. We tow about 6 to 10 thousand miles a year from Arizona to Maine and it really isn't an issue for us.

    That's all I can answer right now. But I know other forum members will weigh in soon.

    Jim

  3. #3
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    Thanks so much for the reply and the insight, Jim! And sorry for the duplicate posts. Wasn't really sure where this one should live.

  4. #4
    Long Hauler howson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bakerstirregular View Post
    ...so I'm hoping you can help with my question.
    Welcome to the forum, Sarah.

    The "look and feel" you reference is exactly why we have a Grand Design and not a Rockwood or Open Range trailer. When my wife walked into a 297RSTS she loved the interior. We ultimately ended up with a 315RLTS due to the bedroom setup and closet (storage) space. I know it's a Reflection and you asked about an Imagine, but hopefully this input will help.

    We've camped longer than a weekend once (in Virginia) for 5 weeks. The 315, for us, feels just right. Not too big but not too small, either. Fran and I aren't tripping over each other when the weather is bad (for the entire first week in Va!) or over our two small dogs.

    I definitely am aware of the length of my 315 while traveling. Add the camper to my truck and I'm close to 60' long. I easily consume a tractor trailer-sized parking space in rest areas. Because I have a 350 dually, though, towing it is actually easy. The truck has no issues pulling or stopping. My point here is to buy a trailer well within your TV's capabilities so the tow experience is not a white-knuckle experience (or be prepared to buy a new TV).

    Regarding your quality expectations from an Imagine, I wish I could say it will be perfect. You'd think as an owner and frequent contributor here I'd be a "fan boy" of Grand Design, but I'm not. They have very nice floorplans (thus my wife's reaction) and the interior fit and finish is one of the best at the price point, but the components that make up the trailer are similar to everyone else's. (Dometic, Lippert, Atwood, WFCO, Furrion, etc.) Grand Design does have a solid reputation for taking care of issues, but I wish they'd focus more on getting it right during the manufacturing process (and using better components) so less effort is required to fix what's not right. Look for threads here from chemist308 and you'll see he's having all kinds of issues with his new 337RLS (a Reflection 5th wheel). I'm fortunate that my 315 hasn't had any issues I haven't been able to take care of myself. (I never planned on using the dealer for repairs unless it was literally impossible for me to fix it myself.)

    Good luck with your search and please let us know what you eventually decide (even if it is a Lance).

    -Howard
    2017 Ford F-350 DRW 6.7L Platinum
    2019 315RLTS (purchased 16 Jul 18 from Campers Inn RV in Byron, GA)

  5. #5
    Site Sponsor Steven@147's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bakerstirregular View Post
    Hi Grand Design owners!

    4. Has anyone owned both a Lance and a GD who can weigh in on quality and also suitability for 4 season use? I LOVE all the windows in the GD we're looking at, but they aren't dual-paned, and I'm guessing that makes a pretty big difference with noise and with heat/cold. I've also seen lots about the low point drains freezing up in the GD. Not sure if this is also an issue for Lance but I don't think so. I'm not sure how much this will impact our decision, since we could make some mods to the GD or just deal with not having running water when we winter camp, but having a comfortable inside temperature and propane use are definite considerations.

    5. Has anyone spent extended periods of time in an Imagine? If so, how have they held up? I don't see anything about people full timing in them necessarily, but I'd love to know how they do with heavy use. Have people needed to replace brakes/axles/springs to be more heavy duty?

    Thanks SO much to anyone who can weigh in on even a small portion of the above! There's so much information out there but my questions about Lance vs GD are so specific that I haven't really been able to find the answers I'm looking for yet.

    Sarah
    I can relate our experience with an Imagine 2950RL. Now remodeled and called 2970RL. First you're are going to have issues with any RV you purchase. They all use the same appliances. What sets GD a part from the others is their after sales service when issues do come up. So far we have not had any major problems with our 2017 model.

    Full timing in a Imagine can be done but its not made for that. Storage is minimal but if you keep to the basics its enough. If you try to load all kinds of full timing stuff you will be overloaded on the RV weight. My Wife and I have used ours on 2 week trips and we get along fine with the space we just keeps things loaded in the RV to a minimum. Its just us no pets.

    The grey and black holding tanks are great for our trips but we always use full hook ups with 50 amp service. We carry minimal fresh water because the extra weight of a full tank would put us over our hitch limits.
    The AC and heating in our 2950RL works great and keeps it comfy between 30 degrees and 100 degrees. The 4 seasons package on the Imagines is not adequate for really cold weather camping. There is only one heat duct in the under belly and it is not meant to keep water pipes from freezing. The pass through storage compartment is not heated.

    The suspension on the Imagines is really not serviceable friendly and is not meant for 1000's of miles traveling. It does not have greaseable suspension parts so every year you will have to get the suspension bushings inspected or replaced. The nylon bushings wear out fast. On our 2950RL it has two 4400 pound axles (that are really just beefed up 3500# axles) for a total of 8800# on a GVWR of 8995#, your hitch has to bear some of the RV weight. It would be very easy to overload an Imagine full timing.

    I upgraded our units suspension with greasable metal bushings and installed a better suspension equalizer for easier towing and more trouble free miles. I also upgraded the stabilizer jacks and installed stabilizer bars to replace the weak ones installed by the factory.

    Just our observations and experience with our Imagine.
    Steve & Tami Cass - Escapee's, FMCA Members, Texas Fulltimers Since July 2020
    2019 Solitude 3350RL S-Class, 2018 Ram 3500 DRW, Laramie Longhorn, B&W Companion, Texas Class A Non-CDL Drivers License
    Sharing the Fulltime Lifestyle - www.youtube.com/@tsrvadventures3219/videos, Nonprofit Channel

  6. #6
    Seasoned Camper
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    If Lance had a bunkhouse they would get serious consideration from me. They don't. Winter camping is something I do during hunting season. This year we were in my father in law's jayco and it was down in the teens. We went through a ton of propane.

    There's another thread somewhere around here discussing/debunking the insulation ratings in the RV industry, and GD's claims. I don't doubt they take some liberties, but I will say when shopping last summer every single GD we went into, including a reflection 5er just for fun, were cooler than any other brand at the lot we were on.

  7. #7
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    We looked really hard at the Lance 2375, it's a beautiful unit with most everything we need except is doesn't have ducted AC. AC is important to us since we live in the desert, and I am not convinced the insulation in the Lance is as good as the Imagine which will make a big difference. I am pretty sure we are going with the new Imagine XLS 22RBE, and yes you can access the fridge and bath with the slide in. A serious runner up for us was the Bigfoot, the quality and insulation is superb, and they don't seem to have the problems the big square metal trailers have. Just a little too small for us.

  8. #8
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    Thank you for your insight and opinion, Howard. I know every manufacturer will have issues, and it's always so hard to know who will have the least!

  9. #9
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    Steven, thank you so much! It seems rare to find posts from Imagine owners here, at least on the threads I've seen, so this goes a long way toward getting me the detail I need.

  10. #10
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    Agreed, bigb56 - I was looking at Bigfoots too (and in fact lost of fiberglass trailers) but the Bigfoots are just too small, and Olivers are too expensive. Alas.

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