California DL requirement

**Boomer** · 08-18-2014, 02:02 PM

Just a word of caution to California drivers. You have to get what is called a restriction 41 on your license if you pull a fifth wheel that is over 10000 lbs but under 15000 lbs. if you get stopped by the CHP without this there is a better than even chance you trailer will be impounded. The second part of this is that if you are involved in an accident your insurance will not pay and you can be sued regardless of fault. I just took the test, 20 questions mostly common sense. Do yourselves a favor and get it done.

**thompsons 369rl** · 08-18-2014, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by Boomer

Just a word of caution to California drivers. You have to get what is called a restriction 41 on your license if you pull a fifth wheel that is over 10000 lbs but under 15000 lbs. if you get stopped by the CHP without this there is a better than even chance you trailer will be impounded. The second part of this is that if you are involved in an accident your insurance will not pay and you can be sued regardless of fault. I just took the test, 20 questions mostly common sense. Do yourselves a favor and get it done.

Does this apply only to California residents or do out-of-staters require it as well?

**Jahna** · 08-18-2014, 02:44 PM

Most states and provinces have reciprocity with each other. This means if you are legal in your home jurisdiction you are legal to drive across North America. FYI some states and provinces do require additional endorsements for heavier trailers. Pay attention though when you read the requirements, some are based on actual weight of the trailer being towed and some are based on axle weight of the trailer while hooked up which would be less than actual weight.

A note on reciprocity, this does NOT apply to triple towing of vehicles, if it illegal to triple tow in a given jurisdiction then it's illegal even if in your home state/province it is legal.

**Boomer** · 08-18-2014, 02:52 PM

I can only speak for California requirements, asking the CHP I found out that they look at the manufacturers tag and use the GVWR when it comes to the license requirements.

**Knshook** · 08-18-2014, 06:45 PM

We just went through this because our Reflection's GVWR was more than 10,000. My husband made appointment with both DMV and Highway Patrol,so he would have all the facts correct. These are the facts in CA: if you tow a 5th wheel that has a GVWR over 10,000 lbs but not more than 15,000 GVWR you must have a license that includes an "Endorsement" If you don't have that endorsement and you are in an accident you may find that your insurance won't cover damages,and you will be cited by CHP. And here is the important part and where HP helped us more than DMV......a lot of DMV clerks are not aware of this law and may give you inaccurate info.If they tell you you don't need it they are mistaken. It is in the DMV book of regulations for towing but you must read entire section on 5th wheel requirements to get to endorsement section. CHP and insurances know about it -even if DMV clerks are foggy

and ignorance of the law for the person towing is not an acceptable excuse.
This is what is required for the drivers license with "endorsement" - you have to take a regular drivers test for a Class C license, unless you took one within last year. You must also take a second test, which is the one that asks questions about your knowledge of RV rules of the road. My DH got the booklet- for RV rules of the road-ahead of time,and studied the booklet before taking the test. He said it wasn't difficult and for the most part contained questions that any person towing a 5th wheel would know,but he was glad he studied. He made appointment, took the test. He passed. They took his picture, took his money for new license (33.00 ) and told him they would mail this new license. If you drive in CA but live in another state that doesn't require this endorsement you are fine,it's only if your state requires it.
Just to stress - some DMV clerks were confused about this law. We knew that ahead of time so DH took rules for towing 10,000-15,000 GVWR with him. They saw it in black and white. They had to find a person in DMV who knew what to do and that is how they proceeded from there. We live in small town so perhaps clerks in larger office are more knowledgeable about this law. One way or another ....whether they know about it or not, it is the law! And the person responsible for towing has to know that! Hope this helps anyone in CA. Very glad we checked with CHP and insurance! One last thing...you don't have to take a driving test...just written test.

**ACDW-Ottawa** · 08-21-2014, 08:31 AM

Don't feel like the Government is singling you Californians out with those crazy regs. In the Province of Ontario, all pick-up trucks are classified commercial, although you don't have to follow any of the commercial practices if its for personal use. Not too bad but read on.

1) When you get to the size of a RAM 3500 (long bed or Mega Cab or similar TV) you are just shy of 23FT but, its weight puts you into the truck category requiring annual "commercial safety" test @ $120/yr.
2) The "No Truck" signs apply to trucks over 23FT so you can still drive your RAM unless you have your tail gate down, a longer load, or even just a tow bar in your receiver as that puts you over 23FT!
3) Driving with a utility trailer or any trailer other than a camper attached, again puts you over 23FT so you have to stay off those Truck prohibited routes.
4) Attaching a utility trailer, even if it has no brakes, needs an annual safety because its being pulled by a "safetied" TV (another $100/yr) - cha-ching!
5) Connecting your camper trailer (fifth wheel or tow behind) changes your RAM truck to an "RV" and now you DON'T need a safety and can drive on roads prohibiting trucks. But unhook your camper and "presto", your a truck again! So if you never drive your TV without the trailer your good, but you always do when your at your destination so you need it (its that reciprocity thing - works both ways: allowances & restrictions).
6) Your camper trailer can only exceed the max weight of 10,100 Lbs if it's a fifth wheel and only if it has 2 axles (within the max 24,000 LBS GCW). If your 5er has 3 axles or if you have a tow-behind trailer, your out of luck, and need to bump your licence up to an "A" \. Good thing the Momentum has 2 axles!
7) Exceeding any of these, requires a class "A" tractor trailer licence (with air brake exception) which is an additional written test, annual medical, and a driving test with your TV & RV.

But if you drive a motor home, your classed at "0 LBs" weight and exempt from all of the BS above. For retirees, an annual medical could be a problem so motor home has a serious advantage! I kinda wished, I knew of these regs before I bought my TV & RV because I would have given more serious consideration to buying a motor home.

The RV dealers don't tell you about these rules and many of the DMV personnel and Ministry of Transport personnel are not clear on the rues either.

Its the fun of RVing

-----

Originally Posted by Knshook

We just went through this because our Reflection's GVWR was more than 10,000. My husband made appointment with both DMV and Highway Patrol,so he would have all the facts correct. These are the facts in CA: if you tow a 5th wheel that has a GVWR over 10,000 lbs but not more than 15,000 GVWR you must have a license that includes an "Endorsement" If you don't have that endorsement and you are in an accident you may find that your insurance won't cover damages,and you will be cited by CHP. And here is the important part and where HP helped us more than DMV......a lot of DMV clerks are not aware of this law and may give you inaccurate info.If they tell you you don't need it they are mistaken. It is in the DMV book of regulations for towing but you must read entire section on 5th wheel requirements to get to endorsement section. CHP and insurances know about it -even if DMV clerks are foggy

and ignorance of the law for the person towing is not an acceptable excuse.
This is what is required for the drivers license with "endorsement" - you have to take a regular drivers test for a Class C license, unless you took one within last year. You must also take a second test, which is the one that asks questions about your knowledge of RV rules of the road. My DH got the booklet- for RV rules of the road-ahead of time,and studied the booklet before taking the test. He said it wasn't difficult and for the most part contained questions that any person towing a 5th wheel would know,but he was glad he studied. He made appointment, took the test. He passed. They took his picture, took his money for new license (33.00 ) and told him they would mail this new license. If you drive in CA but live in another state that doesn't require this endorsement you are fine,it's only if your state requires it.
Just to stress - some DMV clerks were confused about this law. We knew that ahead of time so DH took rules for towing 10,000-15,000 GVWR with him. They saw it in black and white. They had to find a person in DMV who knew what to do and that is how they proceeded from there. We live in small town so perhaps clerks in larger office are more knowledgeable about this law. One way or another ....whether they know about it or not, it is the law! And the person responsible for towing has to know that! Hope this helps anyone in CA. Very glad we checked with CHP and insurance! One last thing...you don't have to take a driving test...just written test.

**Boomer** · 08-18-2014, 07:22 PM

I just went thru this today. It took four people to come up with the correct requirements and test. They actually had to copy the test as they only had one copy. By the way it's not really an endorsement it's called a restriction 41. Also it's at no cost unless your license expires within 6 months of taking the test. The OP is exactly correct about the CHP and the insurance implications. Take the test, it's straight forward and common sense.

**Knshook** · 08-18-2014, 08:13 PM

We had heard that,too,but for clarity in my post I called it what the CHP called it-and because the page the CHP handed to my husband said the following: ( I'm typing it verbatim from the page he handed my husband from the handbook of RV driving/towing Regulations)
" Recreational Trailer Endorsement A driver must have a fifth-wheel recreational trailer endorsement added to his/her Class C driver license to pull a fifth-wheel recreational trailer over 10,000, but not over 15,000 lbs. GVWR. To obtain an original fifth-wheel recreational endorsement- adults must : pass the Recreational Vehicles And Noncommercial Class A Trailers law test, Pass the basic Class C law test, unless you renewed your Class C license within the past 12 months, pass a vision test.
Jack, I just re-read this and it sounded like I was contradicting your post. I didn't intend that at all. We had been told the same thing about it being called restriction 41 and were directed to call it an endorsement for clarity. Just trying to keep it clear-we were so blindsided by even needing to have this .....whatever it's called

I was happy you had posted the info because we CA drivers need to know about it

**Flat top** · 08-18-2014, 09:18 PM

I really appreciate all the info. I haven't taken my written drivers test for about 15 years, looks like I have a lot of studying ahead of me.
I cant believe I've never heard of this rule. Looked it up online, and looks like its been in force since 2007.

**Knshook** · 08-18-2014, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by Flat top

I really appreciate all the info. I haven't taken my written drivers test for about 15 years, looks like I have a lot of studying ahead of me.
I cant believe I've never heard of this rule. Looked it up online, and looks like its been in force since 2007.

Steve-Connie,don't lose heart. It is not a hard test and you can get the study test for Class C online. It won't cost anything if your license isn't near expiration. Ken had to pay because his license was due for renewal. We couldn't believe it either when we found out, and when we heard that an insurance company can disallow payment for not having it we really sobered up quickly. Scary the things that can happen and as the saying goes....ignorance of the law is no defense!