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  1. #1
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    150 Series 230RL or 273MK 0r Older Models?

    New to the forum - Hello!
    So happy to have found it - and looks like a very welcoming environment.

    Husband and I are getting back into RVing for retirement - plan to travel the south starting next winter (snowbirds-not fulltimers) and have been impressed with the Grand Design Reflection 150 series fifth wheels. We toured them at the 2017 and 2018 Hershey PA RV show. Currently considering new/used (see below) 230RL and 273MK. We travel with 2 pups and like the move away from carpeting, also the manufacturer seems to be listening to what is important to an RVer in other areas as well. We have a Ford F250, and can easily tow 10,000 lbs. I have a couple of questions for the regulars on the forum who are familiar with this manufacturer…

    New or Used? We know the value of purchasing used models - Camped in the 80’s and 90’s and had very good luck with two previous RV’s that were old when we purchased them. But also like the modern features on 2017 and newer units. So with that said, we are looking at late model RVs, versus older models.

    Question 1 —We have seen several 2018 fifth wheel models for sale by private owners - who have used them one or two times and then post them for sale saying they are selling for personal reasons or decided to give up camping. This seems fishy when you see it 3 times online with the same manufacturer…any thoughts? Is this a trend? I’ve sent emails to two sellers and asked - problems? Leaks? and have been told no, everything is fine.

    Question 2 — Depreciation - If someone buys a new model, drives it off the lot and then changes their mind (see Q 1) the depreciation hit has already happened. The dealer isn’t going to take it back 6 months later and refund their money. What is a fair price? 15% less retail? 10% less? From what I have read about RVs and depreciation it seems the biggest hit is the first year - 20%, but I would want to be fair.

    Question 3 —The Reflection 150 series is new to the line. If we look back at used Reflection models from 2013 or 2014 - they are advertised for the same prices as you can get a newer 2017 or 2018 150 Series for. Thoughts?

    Final Question - There are some really harsh reviews from unhappy campers who purchased Grand Design fifth wheels in the past 2 years. I know a person who is having a warranty problems is more predisposed to vent online than a happy camper. Do you see evidence of some units being more prone to structural problems? We are sold on smaller units as we like state and national parks - are we then going to have more problems? Fire away!!!

    Thank you in advance for your insight and opinions!

    Cindy

  2. #2
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    Cindy
    Welcome to the forum.
    That's a lot of questions but I will do my best, as well as others will I am sure.
    A lot of "use" campers that are not even a year old yet get sold quite often, sometimes for personal reasons , other times because people do not use as much as they thought. Also they buy thinking there truck can haul it only to find out it can not.
    The depreciation of a camper is a lot, however , when the camper was purchased new they may have bought it at 25 or 30% below msrp , then traded in or trying to sell privately. When trying to sell privately they want to recoup as much money as they can , I would too. When this happens sometimes it is better to buy new, or new last years model from a dealer, they want rid of them and usually make a better deal. Also there is some discussion on transferring warranty on this forum that you may want to consider. Maybe worth it the long run to buy new.

    All manufactures have some of there campers that may have problems, GD is no exception, but they tend to take care of these problems , if they can, to keep happy customers. Some of the venting you may read might just be the person that all the want to do is yell and be heard.
    I am not saying GD is the best , but they seem to be better than most, all of our issues , albeit not many , has been handled and we are happy with them. There are many with small issues and some with no issues that people never hear from because they do not yell about it.
    This is a big investment and should be treated that way , find the unit you are happy with at a price you are happy with and go enjoy life. To short to do much complaining.

    These are travel trailers , therefore they get hauled up and down roads and shaken until maybe something breaks, that just the rules of the game.

    Hope this is helpful and again welcome to the forum.

    Brian

  3. #3
    Fireside Member bob074's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cindy_PA View Post
    New to the forum - Hello!
    So happy to have found it - and looks like a very welcoming environment.

    Husband and I are getting back into RVing for retirement - plan to travel the south starting next winter (snowbirds-not fulltimers) and have been impressed with the Grand Design Reflection 150 series fifth wheels. We toured them at the 2017 and 2018 Hershey PA RV show. Currently considering new/used (see below) 230RL and 273MK. We travel with 2 pups and like the move away from carpeting, also the manufacturer seems to be listening to what is important to an RVer in other areas as well. We have a Ford F250, and can easily tow 10,000 lbs. I have a couple of questions for the regulars on the forum who are familiar with this manufacturer…

    New or Used? We know the value of purchasing used models - Camped in the 80’s and 90’s and had very good luck with two previous RV’s that were old when we purchased them. But also like the modern features on 2017 and newer units. So with that said, we are looking at late model RVs, versus older models.

    Question 1 —We have seen several 2018 fifth wheel models for sale by private owners - who have used them one or two times and then post them for sale saying they are selling for personal reasons or decided to give up camping. This seems fishy when you see it 3 times online with the same manufacturer…any thoughts? Is this a trend? I’ve sent emails to two sellers and asked - problems? Leaks? and have been told no, everything is fine.

    Question 2 — Depreciation - If someone buys a new model, drives it off the lot and then changes their mind (see Q 1) the depreciation hit has already happened. The dealer isn’t going to take it back 6 months later and refund their money. What is a fair price? 15% less retail? 10% less? From what I have read about RVs and depreciation it seems the biggest hit is the first year - 20%, but I would want to be fair.

    Question 3 —The Reflection 150 series is new to the line. If we look back at used Reflection models from 2013 or 2014 - they are advertised for the same prices as you can get a newer 2017 or 2018 150 Series for. Thoughts?

    Final Question - There are some really harsh reviews from unhappy campers who purchased Grand Design fifth wheels in the past 2 years. I know a person who is having a warranty problems is more predisposed to vent online than a happy camper. Do you see evidence of some units being more prone to structural problems? We are sold on smaller units as we like state and national parks - are we then going to have more problems? Fire away!!!

    Thank you in advance for your insight and opinions!

    Cindy
    My 2 cents......
    I was referred to the grand design by several happy customers of several years.
    I bought our reflection travel trailer last year and we love it.
    Some minor issues QD took care of them as I like to do my own repairs.

    My question back to you is why the 150 line if your looking at 5ers. If you have a F250? My research showed many features eliminated from the 150 line like one touch auto leveling, if I remember the wall to ceiling trim was lesser quality. Just something to consider when looking. I'm sure those that have 150's are very happy with them.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
    Bob & Sherrie
    17 F150 Ecobeast
    19 Reflection 285BHTS
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #4
    Long Hauler DaveMatthewsBand's Avatar
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    150 Series 230RL or 273MK 0r Older Models?

    Check out the 220RK.
    GD stopped making them because it is designed for only 2 people, so you can probably get a better deal than the models they are continuing with. It is perfect for a couple. It is a 150 series Reflection but it is the smallest and lightest model.
    They made them in 2018 and 2019.
    Only difference is the emergency exit is designed slightly different on the latter.
    It is just over 26’ long hitch to hitch and weighs a hair shy of 9,000 fully loaded.
    Our F250 is about 20’ long, and so is the trailer (the section behind the bumper).
    So it is super easy to back in.
    We have been able to park it in all SP and NPs.
    We didn’t want a model with more than one roof air and we wanted a trailer without automatic leveling, we level ours manually in just a couple minutes using the LevelMatePRO app and some Andersen drive on wedges.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by DaveMatthewsBand; 03-04-2019 at 03:07 PM.
    Resistance is Not Futile, It's Voltage Divided by Current.


  5. #5
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    Hi Brian!

    The depreciation of a camper is a lot, however , when the camper was purchased new they may have bought it at 25 or 30% below msrp , then traded in or trying to sell privately. When trying to sell privately they want to recoup as much money as they can , I would too.
    When this happens sometimes it is better to buy new, or new last years model from a dealer, they want rid of them and usually make a better deal.
    Also there is some discussion on transferring warranty on this forum that you may want to consider. Maybe worth it the long run to buy new.

    Yes, that's true, we purchased our Ford as a leftover and the dealer was willing to negotiate. I didn't think about the warranty-just "assumed" it would transfer - so will do some reading on the forum and look for the details.

    All manufactures have some of there campers that may have problems, GD is no exception, but they tend to take care of these problems , if they can, to keep happy customers. Some of the venting you may read might just be the person that all the want to do is yell and be heard.
    I am not saying GD is the best , but they seem to be better than most, all of our issues , albeit not many , has been handled and we are happy with them. There are many with small issues and some with no issues that people never hear from because they do not yell about it.
    This is a big investment and should be treated that way , find the unit you are happy with at a price you are happy with and go enjoy life. To short to do much complaining.

    We will continue to look online and go to several dealers to see what they have on their lots.

    Thank you!
    Cindy

  6. #6
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    Hi Bob and Sherrie,

    Thanks for your 2 cents! That's the vibe I was getting on the forums - it seems there are some happy Grand Design customers on here.
    We'd prefer a shorter RV, have had longer RV's in the past and smaller and nimbler is what appeals to us now. Don't get me wrong - we love the bigger models! but it's not what we need now - grin. Also parking it at our house would be an issue if it was longer. Thanks for your reply!

    Cindy

  7. #7
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    Hi DMB -

    We liked the 220RK very much! That was our initial choice - but then realized a family member or two would be joining us at times and we would need the extra bed and the dining area. I'm really happy to hear from people on here with their recommendations - and the storage and perks on yours can't be beat for the small footprint! Our previous RVs were all manual leveling - and we had two boys that were thrilled to do it!

    Thanks again for sharing!!!
    Cindy

  8. #8
    Long Hauler DaveMatthewsBand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cindy_PA View Post
    Hi DMB -

    We liked the 220RK very much! That was our initial choice - but then realized a family member or two would be joining us at times and we would need the extra bed and the dining area. I'm really happy to hear from people on here with their recommendations - and the storage and perks on yours can't be beat for the small footprint! Our previous RVs were all manual leveling - and we had two boys that were thrilled to do it!

    Thanks again for sharing!!!
    Cindy
    We have a very nice inflatable mattress that fits perfectly on the living room floor and sleeps 2 adults, and stores in a 12" x 12" box when not in use.
    : )
    Resistance is Not Futile, It's Voltage Divided by Current.


  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveMatthewsBand View Post
    Check out the 220RK.
    GD stopped making them because it is designed for only 2 people, so you can probably get a better deal than the models they are continuing with. It is perfect for a couple. It is a 150 series Reflection but it is the smallest and lightest model.
    They made them in 2018 and 2019.
    Only difference is the emergency exit is designed slightly different on the latter.
    It is just over 26’ long hitch to hitch and weighs a hair shy of 9,000 fully loaded.
    Our F250 is about 20’ long, and so is the trailer (the section behind the bumper).
    So it is super easy to back in.
    We have been able to park it in all SP and NPs.
    We didn’t want a model with more than one roof air and we wanted a trailer without automatic leveling, we level ours manually in just a couple minutes using the LevelMatePRO app and some Andersen drive on wedges.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I second this as I too have a 220RK. You mention needing another bed. If the 220RK has the chase lounge and not theater seating the lounge makes into a second bed. Its actually fairly comfortable. The rear kitchen gives you good counter space over the other models and if you use the sink cover two people can be there and not fight - well that is if I am cutting things correctly.
    2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th wheel with 6K axle upgrade. B&W 25K OEM Companion, Steadyfast system, 2022 F350 SRW 6.7 King Ranch 8' bed, Trailer reverse lights, rear spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, and Solar

  10. #10
    Site Sponsor MarkRizRV's Avatar
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    We have the 230RL for a year now and love it, only had a few minor issues that were easily fixed. Someone said the walls might be thinner than the original reflection, but it blocks outside sounds very well even to the point that my wife can't here me from outside if I need her. We have been on some rough roads gong to Long Island NY and it has held up very well. And one last thing the Turning Point hitch is great.
    Good Luck, Mark
    Mark & Cindy, York, PA
    2018 Reflection 150 Series 230RL (White)
    Curt A16 Hitch, Turning Point Swivel Pin Box, set to Swivel, with Curt Wedge
    2019 Ford F250 STX 6.2L with 4.30 Gears, SB CC SRW 4x4, 18" Wheels, 3192 Payload, 15,000 Towing Capacity, Fifth Wheel Prep & Camper Package, Ultimate Trailer Tow Camera, Factory Ordered
    Prev TV: 2016 F150 3.5L Supercab with 6.5' bed, 2167 payload, LT Tires, and Air Lift 5000 air bags set to 15lbs

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