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  1. #21
    Long Hauler bertschb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the.jmo View Post
    Manufacturer stated dry weights, and every weight for that matter are such a crock of bs.
    Both my Reflection and Solitude were pretty close.

    Here are the numbers for my Solitude:
    Advertised UVW from the Grand Design web site (dry weight) - 13,950
    Actual shipped weight (per spec sheet shipped with my unit) - 13,852
    Actual weight after picking up at dealer (w/ propane and batteries) - 13,998
    Brian & Kellie
    2020 Solitude 310GK-R, FBP, 1,460w solar, 540ah BBGC3, MORryde IS w/disc brakes
    2020 F-350 Platinum SRW Powerstroke Tremor, 60g TF fuel tank, Hensley BD3-F air bag hitch

    Previous setups:
    2019 Solitude 373FB-R, 2019 F-350 Platinum DRW Powerstroke, Hensley BD5 air bag hitch
    2016 Reflection 318RST, 2016 GMC 3500 Denali SRW Duramax, Hensley BD3 air bag hitch

  2. #22
    Site Team xrated's Avatar
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    I've stated this before on other forums, and maybe this one, I honestly do not remember. Here is an example (not using actual numbers). Let's say your truck is rated to tow 16,000 lbs.....and has a payload capacity of 2800 lbs (Just using round numbers to make this easier). So you buy a camping trailer that when loaded is 15,000 lbs, with a GVWR of 16,000 lbs, so still under the GVWR of the trailer. Theoretical pin weight on the 15,000 lbs is 3000 lbs. oops, you are over your truck's payload capacity and you think....they said I could tow 16,000 lbs...they lied. Now lets take a different guy that has a utility/construction hauling flatbed trailer that is rated at 16,000 lbs GVWR. So you load the trailer up with a some type of equipment and between the weight of the trailer and the equipment, you are right at 16,000 lbs. Are you going to be over your payload capacity of the truck if you try and pull this 16,000 lb trailer with equipment on it? You aren't over the trailer tow capacity...16,000 lbs. So lets look at the pin weight that this trailer has put on the truck that has a payload capacity of 2800 lbs. This guy knows a thing or two about payload numbers, pin weight, weight distribution and such, so he loads the equipment on the trailer just slightly behind the center of the trailer axles and straps everything down, ready to tow. On his way to the job site, he goes to a CAT scale and weighs everything and finds out he is good to go....the pin weight that is on the trailer is 2600 lbs, so he's 200 lbs under his payload capacity. He was smart, he loaded the equipment on the trailer where he knew that it wouldn't overload the truck. Had he loaded the equipment closer to the front of the trailer, the pin weight might have been 3500 lbs...or 3800 lbs or xxxx lbs.

    The point I am making here is that even though a truck manufacturer states a given number for a trailer weight that you can safely tow, it is still up to the owner of the truck and trailer to have enough knowledge about towing capacities and load distribution to be able to load and use what he has and not exceed the capacities that the manufacturer has given/stated.

    Having said all of that, the truck manufacturer NEVER ONCE STATED that the truck would be able to tow a 16,000 lbs CAMPING TRAILER/5th Wheel. They did say the truck could tow 16,000 lbs, and it did just that in my second truck scenario. But the guy that has 15,000 lbs of CAMPING trailer cannot make it work because he ran out of payload capacity....even though the trailer was 1000 lbs less than what the manufacturer said it could tow. So, for me, what it comes down to is being educated and knowledgeable about the capacities and ratings, know how they all tie together and work, AND....use some common sense and think things through before you find out that you are overloaded. In my experience over the last 2 1/2 years of owning a couple of camping trailers and two different trucks, there are A LOT of people out there towing camping trailers that have absolutely NO CLUE of what they are doing (towing numbers wise) They simply rely on hearsay from neighbors, co-workers, relatives, or heaven forbid....the dreaded trailer sales guy/gal that tells them.....Yes Sir, that fine looking truck of yours will tow just about anything I've got on the lot...which one do you want! And as hard as it is for me to accept (not really), I was one of those guys a short 2 1/2 years ago that knew nothing about towing numbers, weight capacities, and just figured.....hey, this truck I've got should tow about anyone of the 40' Toy Haulers that I'm wanting to get. Long story short, it didn't work out very well for me. So I had a choice, I could continue on being totally stupid/uninformed about all this stuff, or I could did in, ask questions, and try to learn about the "science/physics" of towing fairly heavy trailers, and that's what I did. I'm certainly not calling myself an expert because...I'M NOT. What I will do though, is try my best to reach out and help anyone that I can when trying to explain the numbers and the relationship between those numbers and how to make themselves better prepared to buy the truck and or the trailer that will work for them. I'm literally shocked at the number of folks that know absolutely zero about what they need for a tow vehicle, yet they are getting ready to plop down BIG money for a trailer that is going to totally overload that truck that they own.

    So, when you guys on here see me make a long post (like this one is) to someone about towing and numbers and such, just remember a couple of things....
    1. I'm trying to help that person as much as I can
    2. I've cramps in my hands from banging on the keyboard typing it all out.
    2016 F350 CrewCab Dually
    2018 Momentum 394M...Heavily Modded!
    2023 Suzuki GSX-S1000 GT+
    Excessive Payload is a Wonderful Thing

    "If it ain't fast....It ain't Fun"

  3. #23
    Commercial Member huntr70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the.jmo View Post
    Manufacturer stated dry weights, and every weight for that matter are such a crock of bs.
    My 380th has a "dry weight" shipped of 15,300lb. With a gross of 19,500. And a listed cargo capacity of 4200lb. If I carry literally anything other than an empty trailer with my harley in the back I'm over its manufacturer rated capacity. Their dry weight is also far off

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
    That is one heavy Harley.

    Each trailer is weighed at the factory and comes with the weight paper in the owners packet. You should know exactly what your trailer weighed when it left the factory.

    Published weights in literature and on websites are averages of several builds.
    Steve- Inventory Manager at Tom Schaeffer's RV, Shoemakersville, PA www.tomschaeffers.com
    [email protected]
    2011 RAM 3500 SRW Outdoorsman Edition 4X4, 6.7 Cummins--TWEAKED!
    2021 Reflection 310RLS

  4. #24
    Seasoned Camper
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    Maybe I missed it. Is the truck in question a gas or diesel? It makes a big difference in payload.

  5. #25
    Big Traveler CWSWine's Avatar
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    The manufacturer didn't lie about what the truck can pull but to pull the rated amount of towing weight set by SAE J2807 the pin weight has to be 15%. Most 5ers run close to 22%. So that. 16,000 pound towing capacity at 15% would be a 2400 pound pin well within most stripped down HD zero option trucks but at 22 percent a more realistic percentage it would 3520.



    SAE J2807 States that exceeding the GVWR is a reason to fail and I Quote:

    “5.4 GVWR/Rear GAWR and Tongue Weight/Kingpin Weight Considerations
    The tow vehicle shall be able to accommodate appropriate trailer tongue and/or kingpin weight to attain a particular TWR
    without exceeding Rear GAWR and/or GVWR. Required minimum conventional trailer tongue weight shall be 10% of TWR and required minimum fifth wheel or gooseneck trailer kingpin weight shall be 15% of TWR.”
    TWR = Trailer Weight Rating

    http://fifthwheelst.com/documents/to...ds-2016-02.pdf
    Last edited by CWSWine; 05-02-2019 at 07:49 AM.
    Dennis & Ellie
    Current 2017 Newmar Ventana Class A & 1994 Airstream Excella Classic Limited Project
    Sold - 310-GK-R Delivered 28 Oct 2016
    2016 GMC Denali 1 Ton Diesel SRW Payload 3727LBS B&W Hitch

  6. #26
    Rolling Along
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    [QUOTE=gordofuchs;231780]
    Quote Originally Posted by Country Campers View Post
    Like you said , you already know the answer , and the dealer should have never allowed you to do this.

    I know this answer every time I pull our 305RE with the srw Dodge Cummins. The trailer gross is around 17,000 lbs., give or take. The pucker factor kicks in on each tow. I have added what I can, ie disc brakes and IS. Both of which cut down on the pucker factor, but it's still there. Given that we use the tow vehicle as the sight seeing vehicle, a dually wasn't an option as many of the places we go are a tight fit with the single rear wheel.

    And before anybody starts, I know, I know, it's a bad idea for a multitude of reasons.


    Like I said before, I know it's wrong, I knew it before I did it. I thought I'd throw it out there for discussion, but I didn't think I'd take this much grief.

    I do have a defense;

    1) My wife won't get into a dually
    2) She won't part with her 305RE
    3) Divorce is not an option
    Gordo Fuchs
    Northfield, Ohio 44067
    2015 305RE Moryde I/S, Electric/hydraulic disc brakes
    2008 Dodge Ram 3500 Cummins

  7. #27
    Long Hauler
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    Not sure how my post keeps getting quoted and how it got mixed up in another quote but oh well.

    Yes Gordo , keep doin what your doin just be safe and keep the wife happy .

    Brian

  8. #28
    Setting Up Camp
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    fifthwheelst.com

  9. #29
    Long Hauler
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    You're really about 4000 lbs. over what any 3/4 ton truck should be towing. I agree about the dually being warranted.

    Good news is that the new generation 150/1500 and 250/2500 trucks are coming into the retail market. They're really something. I have long since noticed that most dealers order such trucks either stripped for corporate customers or loaded to the gills for the truly wealthy. I would be ordering a mid line truck that's nice enough but not too not nice--but priced much less than the high line cabs.

  10. #30
    Setting Up Camp
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    OK. Let's not forget that 2500's have GVWR's of 10000lbs for licensing reasons which is why they will have a low Payload number on the yellow tire inflation/loading decal. Usually in the 2000-2300lb range depending on the trim level of the truck. Not a lot.

    However, one must take into account his Rear Axle Weight Rating. I believe his would be 6500lbs.
    He needs to go to the scale with his truck and get the weight of his rear axle unloaded. Let's say it's 3200lbs.

    So, 6500lbs(RAWR) - 3200lbs(actual) weight = 3300lbs.

    That is the number his truck can handle according to its ratings (GVWR notwithstanding)

    Let's not forget that whatever he puts on/in the truck (family/dog/beer/HITCH) MUST be under that 3300lbs in order to stay under his RAWR.

    Not sure what the pin weight of that beast would be, but I'm thinking he might be close to his trucks 'magic number.'
    No longer a part of the club....DW had to stop working for health issues. Truck and trailer had to be sold :(
    Me, DW, & Bailey the Lab
    3 sons - 26, 23, 21....still come camping with us when they can

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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