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  1. #1
    Site Team
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    Lightbulb Announcement about our name change...

    I'm going to sum things up here at the top of this post. If you want to read the long version below, just keep reading.

    Short Version: This site was founded a long time ago. Grand Design has been supportive and known about the site since it's inception. Last year the site was sold and Grand Design flip-flopped, stating this site is cybersquatting & violating their trademark. We disagree but it's not worth the cost of litigation to prove who is right. It's easier to change domain names, so that's what we are doing. From now on our domain name will be www.MyGrandRV.com. Don't worry the old domain will automatically reroute you to our new domain so the transition should be a breeze.

    Long Version: Chris, the founder of this community, approached Grand Design RV prior to launching this site. He shared his plans to build a subscription-based community. His idea was met with support & appreciation. An active presence from Grand Design in the forums was instrumental in Grand Design creating rapport with their consumers and help build a sense of community among Grand Design owners. Since this forums inception, Grand Design has been a Site Sponsor helping support the costs to run this community. In total Grand Design has posted over 2,000 posts to the forums. It's undisputed that Grand Design has been aware of and supported this community since it was founded.

    This past November Chris decided it was time to pass the torch (announcement). I acquired the site from Chris, we moved forward with business as usual. Weeks after the acquisition, the outside counsel for Winnebago sent us a notification that we were cybersquatting and making bad faith use of a domain name that is confusingly similar to Grand Design's trademark. We were asked to discontinue the Site Sponsor program and remove the Manufacturers Corner.

    We hired an attorney to respond, specifically pointing out that Grand Design was aware of the usage of the domain prior to the site going live. That Grand Design was aware of the alleged trademark violation for many years and never had an issue in the past, which would provide laches / “statute of limitations” defense. Furthermore, Grand Design's trademarks are filed for Class 12 which means they are specific to recreational vehicles, namely, campers, fifth wheel trailers, fifth wheels, towable trailers and travel trailers. Class 12 does not cover interactive services. The nominative fair use doctrine allows you to use another’s trademark to refer to the trademarked good itself in a domain name (you can read about it on Harvard's website).

    What do you call a group of people who own a Ford? Ford Owners. It's descriptive.

    The whole time that the above was going on I was leaving voicemails, sending emails, reaching out via LinkedIn, trying to get a hold of someone at Grand Design to simply talk to & discuss the issues. Like most people, I thought talking through things, understanding the issues and each other's perspective and then trying to find a solution would be a productive path forward. Not once did anyone from Grand Design ever return my requests to discuss the issues. Months later, after a long period of silence and out of the blue, we were sent a settlement agreement. Some of the items requested were technically difficult/impractical and others were too restrictive to accept.

    To this date, I've only had one brief chat with someone at Grand Design, they have only wanted to communicate through attornies. It feels less like someone wanting to work through issues with you and more like someone wanting to push you out of dodge.

    So, this basically means we have a difference of opinion. It's my opinion (and that of my attorney) we have a very strong defense to their claims and that if we went to court we would prevail. Grand Design, of course, has a different opinion. Either way, going to court is expensive and a pain. I'd much rather spend that money on a new Reflection Bunkhouse to take my kids camping!

    We decided that the best path forward would be to change domain names. This way we can move forward and no one should have any issues. As they say, a rose is a rose by any other name. So, as of today, our community will be found on the MyGrandRV.com domain name. If you happen to type the old domain name you will be redirected to our new domain name. All old links will continue to work.

    Per Grand Design's request, we have closed the Manufacturer's Corner. The technical discussions were moved so everyone can still access them but the rest of the forums in that section were archived out of view.

    Noting that one of Grand Design demands was that we switch away from the Site Sponsor model, we have decided to open up the forum to allow users to participate without having to pay/be Site Sponsors. This change will be coming in the weeks ahead. We understand that our Site Sponsors value an ad-free experience and we will make sure that remains one of the perks. We will also be configuring the system so free users have some more restrictions and Site Sponsors get more perks. Examples would include upload space where Site Sponsors will have a much more generous amount and free accounts will be much more limited. As an added perk we are going to give one-year free access to www.RVTripWizard.com (a $39/year value) to all of our active Site Sponsors. We will post another annnouncement soon about the free accounts and new perks for Site Sponsors soon.

    We are choosing this path (name change, etc) even with the belief that the demands from Grand Design were unreasonable because we would rather stay focused on this community and don't want the drama of this situation to become a distraction for the board and it's dedicated members. We are an RVing community with members helping members and that member-driven vibe is irreplaceable. Moving forward I believe the forum will blossom and that information posted here will be invaluable; honest and freely given. It's important that members understand that the information here is offered by real rvers and without manufacturer spin. We appreciate your continued participation and hope to put this behind us and focus on the fun stuff - RVing.
    2017 Toyota Tundra
    No GD in our Garage

  2. #2
    Long Hauler bertschb's Avatar
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    Thanks for the update Andy. It sounds a bit like Grand Design wanted to eliminate competition from their GDRV4Life effort (which is kind of pathetic right now). Kind of depressing but we'll move past this. I do wonder why Grand Design would demand that a forum they don't own and don't participate in is not sponsored by members. Why do they care????
    Last edited by bertschb; 05-28-2019 at 02:12 PM.
    Brian & Kellie
    2020 Solitude 310GK-R, FBP, 1,460w solar, 540ah BBGC3, MORryde IS w/disc brakes
    2020 F-350 Platinum SRW Powerstroke Tremor, 60g TF fuel tank, Hensley BD3-F air bag hitch

    Previous setups:
    2019 Solitude 373FB-R, 2019 F-350 Platinum DRW Powerstroke, Hensley BD5 air bag hitch
    2016 Reflection 318RST, 2016 GMC 3500 Denali SRW Duramax, Hensley BD3 air bag hitch

  3. #3
    Long Hauler
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    I am curious as to why they would want you to have a non-sponsored site as well. If we the members choose to pay for a site that has no adds and also has , as of some period ago , no link to Grand Design at all , why would that have any effect on how you run you site? If you want to charge 1 penny to be a site sponsor that is your business.

    Another questions , When this becomes a "free" site , what will you do for the folks that have paid recently for a 3 year membership?

    Brian

  4. #4
    Long Hauler Canyonlight's Avatar
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    Andy - while the outcome (losing GDRVs support and involvement) is not what many of us us wanted, to quote many now days who say - "it is what it is."

    We appreciate all your and your team members along with the legal team did over the last few months to work through this. Having had legal situations in my commercial real estate investments I can certainly appreciate your comments on costs and distractions from running the business.

    The part of getting your GDRV Reflection bunk may be (yea, it was) the best part of your post !

    Dan
    Dan & Carol
    2014 303RLS Reflection #185 (10/2013 build)
    2012 Silverado LTZ Crew Duramax 2500HD
    2700/16K Pullrite Superglide

  5. #5
    Site Team
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    Quote Originally Posted by Country Campers View Post
    IAnother questions , When this becomes a "free" site , what will you do for the folks that have paid recently for a 3 year membership?
    We will honor what the user has paid for. We plan to keep the same ad-free experience for Site Sponsors. We will also have a Site Sponsor only section(s) of the site. We'll offer more perks like more upload space, more PM space, larger avatar, etc. Lastly we plan to offer all Site Sponsors a year free of RV Trip Wizard.

    If we have people who still have issues, I'd like to ask them to let us know using the Contact Us link at the bottom of the page and we will work with you to make things right. At the end of the day we want to make sure our members are happy and well properly taken care of.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toes in the water View Post
    The part of getting your GDRV Reflection bunk may be (yea, it was) the best part of your post !
    Seriously. Would you rather the brain damage of dealing with expensive lawyers or the fun of seeing your two daughters build fires and go fishing! It's a no brainer to me.
    2017 Toyota Tundra
    No GD in our Garage

  6. #6
    Long Hauler
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    Andy

    Seems like all is good. More changes ahead I assume?
    It is sad that it has come to this ,but with this community group of folks I can not think this will be detrimental to this site. Too much here to offer and too much info to access.

    Brian

  7. #7
    Site Team
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    Quote Originally Posted by Country Campers View Post
    Seems like all is good. More changes ahead I assume?
    No, only what has been posted above. Here soon, I'll post another thread about the Site Sponsor perks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Country Campers View Post
    It is sad that it has come to this ,but with this community group of folks I can not think this will be detrimental to this site. Too much here to offer and too much info to access.
    I was hoping to be able to chat with Grand Design and work through the issues. I think this community is an amazing asset to Grand Design owners and I think they understand that too.
    2017 Toyota Tundra
    No GD in our Garage

  8. #8
    Site Sponsor livinthelife's Avatar
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    I think the Winnebago purchase changed the vision that the original Grand Design manufacturers had. Sad.

    2017 Reflection 26RL "Mili"
    2016 Ford F250 Extended Cab Gas Engine "Buck" (the truck)

  9. #9
    Site Sponsor Scousers's Avatar
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    Can you take off the "...unofficial site" in the footer? It has irritated me for a while. This IS the official site of the sponsors and guests. What we are official about is in our minds!!!

  10. #10
    Site Sponsor Scousers's Avatar
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    Will we still have the rallies?

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