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    Seasoned Camper Boom 'r Bust's Avatar
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    Managing Pin Weights

    As I enter this new world of Rving, I struggle with making the numbers work. We are looking at a 230RL and have a 2018 Titan XD tow vehicle. Payload is 2000#.

    I know you can get a tail gate rack and pull some wt off the pin that way. But that kind of defeats the benefits of a shorter rig. How about the holding tanks? Are any of them behind the axles? Any other ideas you can give a newbie?

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    Site Team Second Chance's Avatar
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    A hitch rack (which is what it seems you meant) for the trailer will only handle 300 lbs. including the rack. It's not a reasonable way to try to reduce pin weight. On the Reflection fifth wheels, all tanks are forward of the axles with the exception of the fresh water tank, which is over the axles. There is no work-around for an adequate, capable tow vehicle.

    Rob
    U.S. Army Retired
    2012 F350 DRW CC LB Lariat PS 6.7
    2020 Solitude 310GK-R, MORryde IS, disc brakes,
    Sailun LRG tires, solar, DP windows, W/D
    (Previously in a Reflection 337RLS)
    Full time since 08/2015

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    Site Team xrated's Avatar
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    When towing camping trailers, both tow behind and especially 5vers....vs....towing flat bed utility type trailers, the limiting factor on what you can tow is almost always your payload capacity of the tow vehicle. Having said that, a 5ver will put approx 20% of its loaded weight on the truck as pin weight. It might be a little more, but is seldom much less than the 20%. Secondly, a standard and generally accepted way to calculate if you truck is going to be big enough for whatever trailer, is to use the GVWR of the trailer as the number for multiplying times 20%. A trailer that has a 10,000 lb GVWR would be .....10K times 20% = 2000 lbs of pin weight. You may or maybe never load it to the GVWR, but keep in mind, a lot of people have thought they would NEVER load one up to full capacity, then a few months or a year later, they are truck shopping because they bought a truck that had just enough capacity to barely squeak by and now they are taking more stuff and the trailer is at its limit, but the truck is overloaded. That is the reason that you always use the trailer GVWR when sizing a proper size truck.

    So do not make the mistake of thinking....my truck has a towing capacity of let's say 11,500 lbs, and I'm buying a 10,000 lb trailer...I'm good! Not necessarily. That 10,000 lb trailer, producing 2000 lbs of pin weight on a truck that has a 2000 lb payload capacity is now overloaded. You still have to add the amount of hitch weight, passenger(s), and anything and everything that goes in and on the truck, both in the bed and in the cab. So you can see that 2000 lbs of pin weight plus all the other things could easily approach 2500...2600...2800 lbs. Now, you are overloaded by 500 to 800 lbs, which also means you are over the GVWR of the truck...and possibly the RAWR.
    2016 F350 CrewCab Dually
    2018 Momentum 394M...Heavily Modded!
    2023 Suzuki GSX-S1000 GT+
    Excessive Payload is a Wonderful Thing

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    Site Sponsor MarkRizRV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boom 'r Bust View Post
    As I enter this new world of Rving, I struggle with making the numbers work. We are looking at a 230RL and have a 2018 Titan XD tow vehicle. Payload is 2000#.


    I know you can get a tail gate rack and pull some wt off the pin that way. But that kind of defeats the benefits of a shorter rig. How about the holding tanks? Are any of them behind the axles? Any other ideas you can give a newbie?
    We have the 2018 230RL
    When I had my 2016 F150 with a payload of 2167, I just barely made the numbers but not over. You have to load very carefully, nothing extra can be in the Truck accept the passengers, nothing in the RV tanks. I did have a Bike Rack on the back of the RV with two bikes which helped.

    Also these ratings were also at the limits of the F150: Front Axle Max 3375 , Rear Axle Max 3800 , GCRW 7050, if you have lower ratings you will be over

    Mark
    Mark & Cindy, York, PA
    2018 Reflection 150 Series 230RL (White)
    Curt A16 Hitch, Turning Point Swivel Pin Box, set to Swivel, with Curt Wedge
    2019 Ford F250 STX 6.2L with 4.30 Gears, SB CC SRW 4x4, 18" Wheels, 3192 Payload, 15,000 Towing Capacity, Fifth Wheel Prep & Camper Package, Ultimate Trailer Tow Camera, Factory Ordered
    Prev TV: 2016 F150 3.5L Supercab with 6.5' bed, 2167 payload, LT Tires, and Air Lift 5000 air bags set to 15lbs

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    Seasoned Camper Boom 'r Bust's Avatar
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    Second Chances and Xrated, thank you for taking the time to reply to my questions. I understand how important it is stay within the parameters of my TV. And I will even if I means packing lighter than we all ready do.

    Just looking for any small things that can be done to assist in the process.

    The Titan XD is more capable than any other "half ton" in the business. It has a 3/4 ton frame, 1 ton rear axle, and 14 inch disc breaks vs. 10 inch on other 1/2 tons. The GVWR IS 8800lbs. Again more than any other 1/2 ton. But the payloads are lower because the truck weighs so much. My curb wt is 6700 lbs. Again about 1500 more than most 1/2 tons. My RAWR is 4900 lbs. Again a significant jump from other 1/2 tons.

    My research tells me that this truck is the best half ton candidate for towing GD's 150 series. But even with all that being said, I will not go over my payload limits. I will push them, but not exceed them...

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    Seasoned Camper Boom 'r Bust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRizRV View Post
    We have the 2018 230RL
    When I had my 2016 F150 with a payload of 2167, I just barely made the numbers but not over. You have to load very carefully, nothing extra can be in the Truck accept the passengers, nothing in the RV tanks. I did have a Bike Rack on the back of the RV with two bikes which helped.

    Also these ratings were also at the limits of the F150: Front Axle Max 3375 , Rear Axle Max 3800 , GCRW 7050, if you have lower ratings you will be over

    Mark
    Mark thank you for your reply. I think we will end up doing exactly what you describe. Careful loading, empty tanks, nothing extra in truck. My RAWR is 4900 and GVWR is 8800. The XD is more like a 5/8 ton truck.

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    Long Hauler bertschb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Second Chance View Post
    There is no work-around for an adequate, capable tow vehicle.
    This pretty much sums it up Rob. When we bought our Solitude I started working on ideas to reduce the hitch weight to stay within my truck's payload rating. I was planning on moving gear to the rear of the RV while traveling, taking fewer items, adding a rear cargo tray etc. All along I knew what the real solution was and eventually bit the bullet and bought the right truck for the job.
    Brian & Kellie
    2020 Solitude 310GK-R, FBP, 1,460w solar, 540ah BBGC3, MORryde IS w/disc brakes
    2020 F-350 Platinum SRW Powerstroke Tremor, 60g TF fuel tank, Hensley BD3-F air bag hitch

    Previous setups:
    2019 Solitude 373FB-R, 2019 F-350 Platinum DRW Powerstroke, Hensley BD5 air bag hitch
    2016 Reflection 318RST, 2016 GMC 3500 Denali SRW Duramax, Hensley BD3 air bag hitch

  8. #8
    Rolling Along JColeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bertschb View Post
    This pretty much sums it up Rob. When we bought our Solitude I started working on ideas to reduce the hitch weight to stay within my truck's payload rating. I was planning on moving gear to the rear of the RV while traveling, taking fewer items, adding a rear cargo tray etc. All along I knew what the real solution was and eventually bit the bullet and bought the right truck for the job.
    My conclusion as well, but the economic realities mean that we either mitigate the issue until we can trade up or park the unit for a year or so.

    Center of gravity can affect pin weight. Depending on location of the tanks, CG can be optimized to reduce pin weight while maintaining gross weight. No one is arguing that doing this is optimal, just sometimes reality.

    Because tank location is model specific and I don't want to derail this thread I have started a 310 tank location thread here:

    https://www.mygrandrv.com/forum/show...n-310-specific
    Jeff and Jen
    2016 F250 CC Lariat 4x4 6.7L, Firestone Airbags, Pullrite Superglide
    2017 Solitude 310GK, a little solar, a little lithium, disc brakes and a few suspension mods

    Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Ben Franklin

  9. #9
    Site Team xrated's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boom 'r Bust View Post
    Second Chances and Xrated, thank you for taking the time to reply to my questions. I understand how important it is stay within the parameters of my TV. And I will even if I means packing lighter than we all ready do.

    Just looking for any small things that can be done to assist in the process.

    The Titan XD is more capable than any other "half ton" in the business. It has a 3/4 ton frame, 1 ton rear axle, and 14 inch disc breaks vs. 10 inch on other 1/2 tons. The GVWR IS 8800lbs. Again more than any other 1/2 ton. But the payloads are lower because the truck weighs so much. My curb wt is 6700 lbs. Again about 1500 more than most 1/2 tons. My RAWR is 4900 lbs. Again a significant jump from other 1/2 tons.

    My research tells me that this truck is the best half ton candidate for towing GD's 150 series. But even with all that being said, I will not go over my payload limits. I will push them, but not exceed them...
    With the empty weight of the trailer producing around 1400 lbs of pin weight, and another ??? lbs of 5ver hitch weight, you'll definitely be in the upper range of your payload....but, with careful planning and light truck/trailer packing it may just work for you. I sincerely hope it does work for you and I appreciate your desire to stay within the limits of the tow vehicle....there are far too many that just don't care...or bother to even know what they have, thank you.
    2016 F350 CrewCab Dually
    2018 Momentum 394M...Heavily Modded!
    2023 Suzuki GSX-S1000 GT+
    Excessive Payload is a Wonderful Thing

    "If it ain't fast....It ain't Fun"

  10. #10
    Seasoned Camper Boom 'r Bust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xrated View Post
    With the empty weight of the trailer producing around 1400 lbs of pin weight, and another ??? lbs of 5ver hitch weight, you'll definitely be in the upper range of your payload....but, with careful planning and light truck/trailer packing it may just work for you. I sincerely hope it does work for you and I appreciate your desire to stay within the limits of the tow vehicle....there are far too many that just don't care...or bother to even know what they have, thank you.
    Thanks xrated. My goal is to pick up a couple hundred pounds on my payload as a buffer. I'm within 50lbs now and that make me a little uneasy.

    What about this idea - Take the TV spare tire off (mounted under the truck bed) and attach it to the back of the RV. Probably to the ladder. I figure that alone would add 100lbs payload. 60ish off the rear axle and 40ish off the pin wt by putting it on the back bumper. What do you guys think?

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