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  1. #51
    Setting Up Camp
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    As for towing... I started with a little utility trailer, then a small popup, then a big popup, now the 2500RL. It is a handful, especially if there is a 20 to 30 mile an hour wind but you just have to SLOW DOWN. We went from a F150 to an F250 with the 2500RL but IMO there is not a huge difference when I am towing and the wind is hitting the trailer broadside. Speed is the biggest difference when it comes to control.

  2. #52
    Seasoned Camper
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    Regarding weights. I understand what UVW is. I also think I understand that UVW + Payload (CCC) = GVWR. What I am confused by is what design criteria sets the GVWR. Is appears to to be the axles ratings? Or?

  3. #53
    Site Sponsor Skiddy's Avatar
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    Your math is sort of correct. GDRV defines cargo capacity as CCC=GVWR-(UVW+Full fresh water+full hot water tank+full LP gas weight) but then does not include full fresh water and full hot water tank weight which inflates the “CCC”. I assume the empty LP tanks and the battery are included in the actual vehicle weights.

    For my 2150RB, the GVWR is stated to be 6695#, I do not know where that came from, and that is your question. The axle ratings are 3500# each, total 7000#. The hitch weight is 444#, street side weight is 2628#, curb side weight is 2528# resulting in UVW of 5600#. This would appear to result in a CCC of 1095# if you use the GVWR of 6695# less the UVW of 5600#. The stated CCC is much lower at 1055#, which does not include fresh water and a full water heater, result of GVWR-(UVW+full LP gas weight), 6695#(5600#+40#)=1055#. The actual CCC, as defined by GDRV and included on the vehicle weight information sheet, would be: 6695#-(5600#+382#+50#+40#)=623#. Makes you want to pack light doesn’t it.
    Last edited by Skiddy; 06-24-2019 at 12:44 PM.
    Judy & Larry
    Ty and Ali the St Bernard drool machines
    Delta, British Columbia, GWN
    2019 Imagine 2150RB - lovingly christened “IM-A-GENE” towed by Dusty via Andersen 3350.
    2018 F150 SCREW 3.5 EcoBoost Lariat - respectfully christened “Dusty”.

  4. #54
    Site Sponsor Skiddy's Avatar
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    I noticed after posting I had a typo - corrected in second post - sorry

    Your math is sort of correct. GDRV defines cargo capacity as CCC=GVWR-(UVW+Full fresh water+full hot water tank+full LP gas weight) but then does not include full fresh water and full hot water tank weight which inflates the “CCC”. I assume the empty LP tanks and the battery are included in the actual vehicle weights.

    For my 2150RB, the GVWR is stated to be 6695#, I do not know where that came from, and that is your question. The axle ratings are 3500# each, total 7000#. The hitch weight is 444#, street side weight is 2628#, curb side weight is 2528# resulting in UVW of 5600#. This would appear to result in a CCC of 1095# if you use the GVWR of 6695# less the UVW of 5600#. The stated CCC is much lower at 1055#, which does not include fresh water and a full water heater, result of GVWR-(UVW+full LP gas weight), 6695#(5600#+40#)=1055#. The actual CCC, as defined by GDRV and included on the vehicle weight information sheet, would be: 6695#-(5600#+382#+50#+40#)=623#. Makes you want to pack light doesn’t it.
    Judy & Larry
    Ty and Ali the St Bernard drool machines
    Delta, British Columbia, GWN
    2019 Imagine 2150RB - lovingly christened “IM-A-GENE” towed by Dusty via Andersen 3350.
    2018 F150 SCREW 3.5 EcoBoost Lariat - respectfully christened “Dusty”.

  5. #55
    Seasoned Camper
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    Earlier this year we purchased imagine2400bh. We are towing it with F150 v8. When it comes to TT we researched different brands but in the end it came down to between Coachmen Apex and our current imagine. I liked Apex because it uses Azdel material. We settled on Imagine because the finish appeared to be a little better. Similar price points. We've towed over 6600 miles and had no major issues. The center support awning bracket came loose so that will be fixed shortly. Forgot to close slide window which caused damage to the shades. Other than that the Tt is fine. I did upgrade tires to Goodyear endurance. Our tow vehicle handled the trailer without any issues and I had no sway problems in normal traffic or when being passed by trucks. I only felt it move more in Wyoming and south Dakota with 40+ mile winds. Wdh is equalizer e4. So far happy with the setup.

  6. #56
    Seasoned Camper
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skiddy View Post
    I noticed after posting I had a typo - corrected in second post - sorry

    Your math is sort of correct. GDRV defines cargo capacity as CCC=GVWR-(UVW+Full fresh water+full hot water tank+full LP gas weight) but then does not include full fresh water and full hot water tank weight which inflates the “CCC”. I assume the empty LP tanks and the battery are included in the actual vehicle weights.

    For my 2150RB, the GVWR is stated to be 6695#, I do not know where that came from, and that is your question. The axle ratings are 3500# each, total 7000#. The hitch weight is 444#, street side weight is 2628#, curb side weight is 2528# resulting in UVW of 5600#. This would appear to result in a CCC of 1095# if you use the GVWR of 6695# less the UVW of 5600#. The stated CCC is much lower at 1055#, which does not include fresh water and a full water heater, result of GVWR-(UVW+full LP gas weight), 6695#(5600#+40#)=1055#. The actual CCC, as defined by GDRV and included on the vehicle weight information sheet, would be: 6695#-(5600#+382#+50#+40#)=623#. Makes you want to pack light doesn’t it.


    uh, WOW! I may need an app for that! The concerning part of this is on the 2500RL it has the same 3500# axles for a total of 7000#, but the GVWR is 7495# . So, when fully loaded it exceeds the rating for the axles?

  7. #57
    Site Sponsor Skiddy's Avatar
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    Yes it does, if you believe the specifications on the GDRV web site. GDRV provides a unit summary sheet detailing the serial numbers of the axles, tires appliances etc... I don’t know if other dealers/manufacturers do this, but a friend who purchased a Rockwood product was trying to figure out how to get all the serial numbers for appliances warranty registration.
    Your question is a very good one. Note the 2600RB ratings, using 4400# axles.

    I have asked the same question of GDRV regarding the 2450RL, the specs are very similar to the 2500RL.

    EDIT - further, I think the 3500# axles use 10” drums and brakes, the 4400# axles use 12”.
    Last edited by Skiddy; 06-25-2019 at 08:00 AM.
    Judy & Larry
    Ty and Ali the St Bernard drool machines
    Delta, British Columbia, GWN
    2019 Imagine 2150RB - lovingly christened “IM-A-GENE” towed by Dusty via Andersen 3350.
    2018 F150 SCREW 3.5 EcoBoost Lariat - respectfully christened “Dusty”.

  8. #58
    Site Sponsor Skiddy's Avatar
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    OK for what it is worth, received a call from a sales guy who informed me to determine the load on the axles the hitch weight is subtracted from the GVWR. The 2500RL you mentioned would have an axle load of 6914 pounds or about 99% of the axle capability. The entire Imagine line varies from as low as 85% to 99% - interesting to say the least.
    Judy & Larry
    Ty and Ali the St Bernard drool machines
    Delta, British Columbia, GWN
    2019 Imagine 2150RB - lovingly christened “IM-A-GENE” towed by Dusty via Andersen 3350.
    2018 F150 SCREW 3.5 EcoBoost Lariat - respectfully christened “Dusty”.

  9. #59
    Setting Up Camp
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    I have had my 31RLTS for 3 years now and am glad I bought it. We have logged 12,000 miles over 15 or so trips. The shop that has done my repairs said that GD is the best in the market for value and they don't sell even sell GD. They carry several lines including Tiffen
    motor coaches and other name brand TTs and 5th wheels. . My repairs have been for trailer damage I did damaging other things. No trailer can hold up in that situation. As far as the components, yes, they are all made by the same companies. I have nor had a failure yet. An RV is not "plug and play." It requires maintenance and the manual will tell you what to do. I figure that the manufacturer is the best guide. Some tips from owners can be helpful but not a substitute for the manual. The Grand Design has things that set it apart and you will see them if you take more than a casual look. . The devil is in the details. Remember that when you are shopping. They are not all the same. My fridge is in the slideout and has never been an issue. Consider this, Winnenago bought GD after only being in the business for about 5 years because of their quality and commitment to supporting their customers. Happy shopping!!

  10. #60
    Big Traveler
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skiddy View Post
    OK for what it is worth, received a call from a sales guy who informed me to determine the load on the axles the hitch weight is subtracted from the GVWR. The 2500RL you mentioned would have an axle load of 6914 pounds or about 99% of the axle capability. The entire Imagine line varies from as low as 85% to 99% - interesting to say the least.
    You appear to be using GD's published UVW and tongue weights. GD's UVW and hitch weight does not include a battery or propane. Every trailer sold comes with a weight sheet that tells you what the trailer weighed when it left the factory. That weight includes no liquids, propane or battery. You may note GD does not publish a CCC. That's because they vary with options, etc. You will find CCC printed on each individual trailer on the yellow sticker on the street side of the trailer. That number will be simply the GVW minus the unloaded scale weight of the trailer when it comes off the line. All those numbers are on that sticker. Battery, propane, any liquids, any thing else you put on the trailer is considered cargo.
    The axles and tires need to be rated to carry the GVW of the trailer minus tongue weight. In your scenario you are assuming that when the trailer is loaded to its
    GVW that tongue weight remains at the published unloaded weight. That would give you 7% and change on the tongue. Recipe for uncontrollable sway. You need a bare minimum 10% on the tongue. 12 - 14% is likely what you'll end up with. In the case of the 2500RL you'll see that nearly all cargo including waste and FW tanks are near or ahead of the axles. Add 50lbs for the battery and say 100lbs for propane. You can see how this adds weight to the tongue. Not all of it but a significant amount. A conservative 12% of the GVW on the tongue results in a 900lb hitch weight. This would leave 6595lbs on the axles and a 400lb cushion or about 94%. Not a lot but within spec of the axles. They are rated to run at their max. Calculating axle load @ GVW using GD's notoriously optimistic published unloaded hitch weights will not give you an accurate number.

    That said, when the 5200lb axles on my 11,000lb GVW trailer failed and were replaced by GD, I insisted on 6k axles. BTW doing this did not increase the GVW of the trailer. The GVW will always be what is assigned by the factory and they will not change it.

    OP, when shopping for your trailer it is a good practice to use 12-14% of the GVW to estimate the hitch weight of your trailer. Compare that to the payload capacity of your tow vehicle to determine if your TV is appropriate for your chosen trailer. Do NOT believe an RV sales person without verifying.

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