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  1. #11
    Rolling Along
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    I lied. With empty weight plus 60 pounds of LP and no water, you can make the cargo capacity work. T
    (Too many numbers in my head)
    Roger, Stacy and the Sophie the fur kid

    2017 Solitude 300GK
    2015 Chev 2500 Diesel (replaced)
    2020 F350 DRW

  2. #12
    Rolling Along
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    BTW: The scale weights were 3420 on the pin and 10220 on the axles.
    Roger, Stacy and the Sophie the fur kid

    2017 Solitude 300GK
    2015 Chev 2500 Diesel (replaced)
    2020 F350 DRW

  3. #13
    Site Team WhittleBurner's Avatar
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    I always thought a good way to figure truck/trailer configuration is to go by the GVWR of the trailer. Take the GVWR of the trailer and get 21 or 22% of that number and use that number for what your pin weight will likely be. Remember that passengers, hitch and anything else put into the truck comes off that pin weight. That probably wont be what the actual numbers will end up but that will give you something to work with to make a decision on what you will need to stay within the towing numbers.
    Marcy & Gary
    2014 Grand Design - Reflection 303RLS
    2022 GMC 3500 Denali Duramax Longbed SRW
    2015 GMC Denali 3500 - Retired
    2003 F350 - retired
    Michigan
    We're in trouble now, the dog are bloggin'!
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  4. #14
    Site Sponsor sande005's Avatar
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    Perhaps best if you restated your numbers. Exactly what each line is for the VIN sheet, and the two scale tickets (one with truck and trailer, one with truck only). And, of course, your payload capacity from the sticker on the truck.

    Based on what is above, the numbers seem to go this way:
    Base weight: 12052
    Hot Water: 100
    Propane: 60
    Battery est: 50
    net: 12,262

    Pin+axle noted above: 13,640

    Or 1,378 in mystery weight, of which you think only about 300 is "stuff" you added.

    I have, at times, had an issue with getting the wheels of the vehicles correctly on the scales, which leads to all sorts of mis-weighs. If we could see what was individually reported, we might be able to deduce where the discrepancy lies.
    2017 Imagine 2670MK
    2012 F-150 SCrew, Eco, 4x4 6.5 box
    Max. Tow, HD Payload, Airbags, ProPride hitch
    (Previous: Jayco 26.5RLS Fifth, Revolution Pinbox)

  5. #15
    Rolling Along
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    sande005, your interpretation is correct on all counts. The scale numbers I noted above were after I did the math, just to keep things simple here. Also worth noting is that the pin weight went from 23% on the GD weight sheet to 25% with the scale weights.

    Scale weights:
    Truck Rear axle: 7540 (with), 4120 (without) equals 3420 pin weight
    Trailer axles: 10220
    Front axle changed by 20 pounds which is probably just the resolution of the scale.

    Weight of what is in the truck is irrelevant to calculating the weight and distribution of the trailer. (although it is very important for the bigger picture.)

    My concern here is the "mystery weight" as well as the distribution. Leaving the truck out of the picture for now, the stated weight and the actual weight are VERY different. I understand that we all pack more stuff than we think, but trust me. I do weight and balance calculations every day as a helicopter pilot and I am very in tune with what things weigh.

    Regarding the weight distribution, one of the first things that comes to mind is this:
    The manufacturers design these things based on (a Montana rep told me) 18 -22% pin weight. Obviously, safety factors are designed in etc. However, if the scale weight can be trusted, the measured pin weight already exceeds the designed GVWR for the trailer when it still has 1360 to go before reaching GVWR.

    I realize I need to verify scale weights; I just brought it up here to see if anyone else has had a similar experience.

    As stated above, I am suspicious of the scale weights, so I will weigh it again when I get a chance.
    Roger, Stacy and the Sophie the fur kid

    2017 Solitude 300GK
    2015 Chev 2500 Diesel (replaced)
    2020 F350 DRW

  6. #16
    Seasoned Camper ncitro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by full time View Post
    BTW: The scale weights were 3420 on the pin and 10220 on the axles.
    That puts your pin weight at about 25 percent, so like you say that's about right. You're 1300 pounds above the "dry weight" (a worthless number I wish they would just stop using). After you remove your 300 pounds of stuff, plus the weight of the hitch, propane and batteries the rest is probably stuff the previous owner added to the rig, or you're off in your estimate of what you loaded.

    As others have suggested that model is firmly in 350 dually territory and certainly well past 250 territory. I also always recommend going with the GVWR of the trailer for weight calculations, and 25% of that for pin weight.
    2018 Reflection 28BH
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  7. #17
    Rolling Along
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncitro View Post
    That puts your pin weight at about 25 percent, so like you say that's about right. You're 1300 pounds above the "dry weight" (a worthless number I wish they would just stop using).
    And that is where the problem is:
    First, if the pin is already at 25%, there is no way that I can load anything in the basement storage area or the front generator bay without increasing that percentage. (Washer/dryer installs almost directly over the pin)

    Second, the dry weight is a very useful number to start from when figuring out how to load a trailer. It becomes useless when it is not accurate. The weight sheet has the VIN on it and the dealers are convinced that each unit is weighed when it leaves the factory floor. With this unit that can't possibly true.

    And finally, a 15,000 pound trailer at 20% Pin weight (my Montana pulled nicely at 20%) is actually within the GM specs for a 3500 SRW truck. The reason that I use those numbers, as stated above, is that the 2500 and 3500 are identical trucks with the exception of the spring pack. In fact, the GM brochure shows that the 2500 can pull 20 pounds more than the 3500 and that is because the spring pack is heavier in the 3500.
    Roger, Stacy and the Sophie the fur kid

    2017 Solitude 300GK
    2015 Chev 2500 Diesel (replaced)
    2020 F350 DRW

  8. #18
    Site Team WhittleBurner's Avatar
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    Where did you get these empty weights from. If they are numbers off GD's web site they are not the actual numbers your camper would have been after production. They are for the most part guesstimates. After the trailers are built they are weighed and that number would have been in the trailer for the original buyer to see. You can call GD with your vin number and they could tell you what the true dry weight of the trailer was. Just going off of the numbers from the web site you will never be able to figure it out.
    Marcy & Gary
    2014 Grand Design - Reflection 303RLS
    2022 GMC 3500 Denali Duramax Longbed SRW
    2015 GMC Denali 3500 - Retired
    2003 F350 - retired
    Michigan
    We're in trouble now, the dog are bloggin'!
    https://3dogsandatrailer.wordpress.com/


  9. #19
    Rolling Along
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    That is my point... These numbers are from the weight sheet from GD with my VIN on it.

    That is why I'm confused. I can accept differences of a few hundred pounds. However, we're talking about a difference of more than 10% above what they claim this particular unit weighs.

    Again, if my scale numbers are correct which I will verify again, it means that I can't put the washer/dryer where they put the prep. I can't put the generator where they put the prep. I can't put anything in the huge basement storage area. Had I known this, I would have made very different choices when I was doing research before the sale. As it stands, this unit is pretty much worthless to me if I can't load it....

  10. #20
    Rolling Along
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    I agree something doesn't seem to add up right.

    I think I would unload the 300lbs of "stuff", and reweigh the rig in as close to the dry weight configuration as possible. Removing propane tanks, make sure all the water tanks are empty. Keep battery, but account for it etc... Because I would want to know where this weight is coming from as well.

    Maybe there's some stuff the previous owner added, but hard to imagine it would be that much additional weight.

    With my Reflection 367BHS, my unloaded pin weight percentage was 21%. Loaded with everything the pin weight percentage only increased to 22%. That was with a fully loaded basement. I weighted all my stuff that I put in the basement, and it weighed 450lbs. And the scales showed that virtually it was all on the pin (which I expected). My dry pin weight was 2620 and my loaded pin weight was 3060 (delta 440 lbs). These weights included full propane tanks and battery (because I weighed the trailer right after I bought it).

    Mike
    Im Mike Willoughby, and I approve this message.
    2017 Ram 3500 CTD (aka FRAM)
    2019 Grand Design Reflection 367BHS

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