User Tag List

Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 61
  1. #1
    Rolling Along cookinwitdiesel's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Wyoming
    Posts
    650
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    RV Electrical System Overhaul - adding inverters!

    I am considering adding an inverter setup to my Solitude. I am looking at doing 2 inverters so that I can have more capacity as well as a simpler design that will power both legs of the 240v system without any intervention or thought needed. I will want to add solar down the road but initially am just doing inverters and batteries. Adding solar should be pretty simple.

    I am looking at Victron MultiPlus inverters which are also battery chargers (converters) as well as automatic transfer switches between the AC input and the batteries (inverter) for the AC output. I considered the Quattros but they would not offer much additional functionality and would complicate other aspects of the design (would allow me to remove the OEM ATS however would require 24v battery bank and then also a 24 -> 12 DC-DC converter setup). I do not currently have any sort of load shedding EMS designed in, that may be something of interest as well (water heater, microwave, fireplace, 2x ACs all as sheddable load if needed).

    I considered the Lynx Shunt in place of the BMV-712 and separate fuse but would lose the ability to put a cut-off switch in between the batteries and loads and also already have a BMV-712 I haven't installed yet. I liked the Lynx Distributor on the battery side as it makes it easy to fuse each battery but if I go with lithiums that have a BMS already this could be "downgraded" to the "dumb" version that is just bus bars essentially. There is a very good chance I would have to initially go ahead with a 4x 6V (2s2p arrangement) FLA setup and add lithiums later to spread out the costs in which case some fuses would not be terrible.

    I will have EasyStarts on both AC units to allow them to run (albeit for a limited amount of time) without issue.

    We have the residential fridge and must be able to power that (not an issue as I will keep the existing inverter in place there) and want to have the flexibility to boondock or spend a night on the side of the road as needed with minimal compromises in comfort/amenities. I know that solar down the road will vastly expand our options, currently the generator can be used to top of batteries between campsites.

    I have never done anything like this and have only done a bunch of reading on here so open to feedback and ideas from people.

    Thanks in advance!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails RV Visio.pdf  
    Last edited by cookinwitdiesel; 07-10-2019 at 01:16 PM.
    2019 GMC Sierra 3500HD Denali Diesel DRW (Crew Cab | 8 Ft bed | OEM Puck System | Curt Gooseneck Ball for OEM Puck | Timbrens on rear axle)
    2019 Grand Design Solitude S-Class 3740BH-R Fifth Wheel (Onan 5500W LP Generator | MORryde CRE3000 and HD Shackles/Wet Bolts | 3x MORryde Cross Members | 8k Axles and Disc Brakes | Sailun S637 ST | Reese GooseBox 20k 2nd Gen | Splendide Stackable Washer and Dryer)
    Full Suite of Victron Energy Products (2x 5k 24v Quattro Inverter/Charger | 2x 25.6/200 LFP Smart LiFePO4 Batteries | 2880w of Solar Panels across 4x MPPTs | Cerbo GX)

  2. #2
    Long Hauler howson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    NW Florida
    Posts
    2,816
    Mentioned
    49 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cookinwitdiesel View Post
    I am considering adding an inverter setup to my Solitude. I am looking at doing 2 inverters so that I can have more capacity as well as a simpler design that will power both legs of the 240v system without any intervention or thought needed. I will want to add solar down the road but initially am just doing inverters and batteries. Adding solar should be pretty simple.

    I am looking at Victron MultiPlus inverters which are also battery chargers (converters) as well as automatic transfer switches between the AC input and the batteries (inverter) for the AC output. I considered the Quattros but they would not offer much additional functionality and would complicate other aspects of the design (would allow me to remove the OEM ATS however would require 24v battery bank and then also a 24 -> 12 DC-DC converter setup). I do not currently have any sort of load shedding EMS designed in, that may be something of interest as well (water heater, microwave, fireplace, 2x ACs all as sheddable load if needed).

    I considered the Lynx Shunt in place of the BMV-712 and separate fuse but would lose the ability to put a cut-off switch in between the batteries and loads and also already have a BMV-712 I haven't installed yet. I liked the Lynx Distributor on the battery side as it makes it easy to fuse each battery but if I go with lithiums that have a BMS already this could be "downgraded" to the "dumb" version that is just bus bars essentially. There is a very good chance I would have to initially go ahead with a 4x 6V (2s2p arrangement) FLA setup and add lithiums later to spread out the costs in which case some fuses would not be terrible.

    I will have EasyStarts on both AC units to allow them to run (albeit for a limited amount of time) without issue.

    We have the residential fridge and must be able to power that (not an issue as I will keep the existing inverter in place there) and want to have the flexibility to boondock or spend a night on the side of the road as needed with minimal compromises in comfort/amenities. I know that solar down the road will vastly expand our options, currently the generator can be used to top of batteries between campsites.

    I have never done anything like this and have only done a bunch of reading on here so open to feedback and ideas from people.

    Thanks in advance!
    Now don't get discouraged--I'm going to provide honest, straight-forward feedback based on my experience with my install. By no means am I an "expert" nor am I an electrician, so this feedback is likely worth the price you're paying for it.

    1) Lynx Distributor #1's connections are backwards. Unless connected to the Lynx Shunt (not the same thing as the shunt that comes with the BMV-712) you use the connections on the right, not those large posts on the left. See post #120 in my thread for more information. https://www.mygrandrv.com/forum/show...l=1#post222386

    2) You do realize there are fuses available for the Lynx Distributor, right? Where you have the red line attached--move them down to the stud underneath each connection (where they are currently drawn). A fuse makes the connection from there to the stud where you have the red line drawn. (In that same post linked above look at the first picture. Within that first picture are four shots--#3 and 4 have the mini-fuses installed.) If you're not going to use the smart capabilities of the Lynx Distributor save yourself some $$ and just get a Fastronix bus bar. (Lot of discussion on this topic in my thread.) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    3) I'm not convinced the ground attached to Lynx #2 is correct in order for the Victron to measure all power usage. Watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tV055vmZgvY and at about the 3:20 mark Garret Towne (electrical engineer at AMSolar) explains why I don't think it is right.

    4) I was advised that a minimum of three batteries is recommended per inverter. This video may be helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Qc0TLRf7e0 (At 4:24 is a great shot of his setup...with six batteries. Sorry!)

    5) Consider drawing out where the current battery disconnect and DC wiring is in your coach prior to the breaker panel. Your diagram does not show the DC circuits that bypass the circuit breaker panel (emergency brake switch, etc).

    6) Minor point, but the rig is not 240V/50A. It is two 120V lines rated at 50 amps. (I don't think it is just semantics!)

    7) I strongly urge you to consider a Progressive Industries EMS-HW50C installed between the shore power plug and the OEM ATS. I hope you don't discount this particular piece of advice--one wayward pedestal, a bad connection on your camper, or a bad cable and you'll be very, very sorry if you don't have the EMS to protect your investment.

    8) Where is the OEM inverter in your drawing (for the refrigerator). Why keep it when you buying the Victrons?

    That's enough for now.

    -Howard
    Last edited by howson; 07-11-2019 at 05:50 AM. Reason: Corrected inverter reference
    2017 Ford F-350 DRW 6.7L Platinum
    2019 315RLTS (purchased 16 Jul 18 from Campers Inn RV in Byron, GA)

  3. #3
    Setting Up Camp chadskidmore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Spokane, WA
    Posts
    21
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Definitely agree with the recommendation to get the Progressive Industries EMS. You'll have a significant investment in power systems gear so the EMS is cheap insurance to help protect it.

  4. #4
    Rolling Along cookinwitdiesel's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Wyoming
    Posts
    650
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by howson View Post
    Now don't get discouraged--I'm going to provide honest, straight-forward feedback based on my experience with my install. By no means am I an "expert" nor am I an electrician, so this feedback is likely worth the price you're paying for it.

    1) Lynx Distributor #1's connections are backwards. Unless connected to the Lynx Shunt (not the same thing as the shunt that comes with the BMV-712) you use the connections on the right, not those large posts on the left. See post #120 in my thread for more information. https://www.mygrandrv.com/forum/show...l=1#post222386

    2) You do realize there are fuses available for the Lynx Distributor, right? Where you have the red line attached--move them down to the stud underneath each connection (where they are currently drawn). A fuse makes the connection from there to the stud where you have the red line drawn. (In that same post linked above look at the first picture. Within that first picture are four shots--#3 and 4 have the mini-fuses installed.) If you're not going to use the smart capabilities of the Lynx Distributor save yourself some $$ and just get a Fastronix bus bar. (Lot of discussion on this topic in my thread.) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    3) I'm not convinced the ground attached to Lynx #2 is correct in order for the Victron to measure all power usage. Watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tV055vmZgvY and at about the 3:20 mark Garret Towne (electrical engineer at AMSolar) explains why I don't think it is right.

    4) I was advised that a minimum of three batteries is recommended per 3000W inverter. This video may be helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Qc0TLRf7e0 (At 4:24 is a great shot of his setup...with six batteries. Sorry!)

    5) Consider drawing out where the current battery disconnect and DC wiring is in your coach prior to the breaker panel. Your diagram does not show the DC circuits that bypass the circuit breaker panel (emergency brake switch, etc).

    6) Minor point, but the rig is not 240V/50A. It is two 120V lines rated at 50 amps. (I don't think it is just semantics!)

    7) I strongly urge you to consider a Progressive Industries EMS-HW50C installed between the shore power plug and the OEM ATS. I hope you don't discount this particular piece of advice--one wayward pedestal, a bad connection on your camper, or a bad cable and you'll be very, very sorry if you don't have the EMS to protect your investment.

    8) Where is the OEM inverter in your drawing (for the refrigerator). Why keep it when you buying the Victrons?

    That's enough for now.

    -Howard
    Thanks for the review!

    To address concerns:

    1)This was more just for pretty Visio drawings, I will manipulate stuff as needed in real world at time of install. I wall also have to use a subpanel/juntion box to distribute the AC neutral and ground from the ATS to the 2 inverters.

    2) I am planning to use the MEGA bolt on fuses that fit in the Lynx unit, I just drew the picture this way so that the wiring was not a complete spaghetti bowl mess in the picture.

    3) "Ground" in this case just refers to the lowest voltage point in the whole system (essentially, the trailer frame). I did it this way because many DC elements in the RV actually just connect to the frame and do not run all the way back to the batteries directly. The DC system (afaik) never actually connects back to earth/ground outside the trailer like AC does. This puts the shunt between the batteries and load on the negative side which is the desired design.

    4) I would have 400A continuous available to the 2 inverters (which can do 2400W continuous inverting - they are rated at 3000 VA, NOT 3000 watts. With AC it is not a 1:1 thing like DC). That would be enough to run both inverters at full power (200A input each) simultaneously which should realistically never happen. Battery life is another story haha.....

    5) I plan to tie in the existing DC stuff that does not go through the main panel through that same connection as the main panel. I may have the connection off of the Lynx go to a Bus Bar where all of the other stuff can connect up. This would include stuff like the GC 3.0 jacks and landing gear. I still need to investigate everything there to plan accordingly - was not included in drawing for simplicity's sake.

    6) While you are right, so am I. It is a NEMA14-50 connector which is a 250V rated connection. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector#NEMA_14

    7) I currently have an external EMS-PT50x that I will use since it is already paid for - now whenever it fails for whatever reason, I will replace it with a built-in unit. Definitely using one!

    8) I will either tie it in with the other "existing" DC stuff or remove it all together. Need to learn more about what it is powering (just the fridge or that whole circuit which includes a large chunk of the living area receptacles). When driving, I may turn off the 2 Victrons to reduce parasitic draw and just leverage the OEM one already installed. It just has to run the fridge.
    Last edited by cookinwitdiesel; 07-10-2019 at 07:43 PM.
    2019 GMC Sierra 3500HD Denali Diesel DRW (Crew Cab | 8 Ft bed | OEM Puck System | Curt Gooseneck Ball for OEM Puck | Timbrens on rear axle)
    2019 Grand Design Solitude S-Class 3740BH-R Fifth Wheel (Onan 5500W LP Generator | MORryde CRE3000 and HD Shackles/Wet Bolts | 3x MORryde Cross Members | 8k Axles and Disc Brakes | Sailun S637 ST | Reese GooseBox 20k 2nd Gen | Splendide Stackable Washer and Dryer)
    Full Suite of Victron Energy Products (2x 5k 24v Quattro Inverter/Charger | 2x 25.6/200 LFP Smart LiFePO4 Batteries | 2880w of Solar Panels across 4x MPPTs | Cerbo GX)

  5. #5
    Rolling Along cookinwitdiesel's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Wyoming
    Posts
    650
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by howson View Post

    3) I'm not convinced the ground attached to Lynx #2 is correct in order for the Victron to measure all power usage. Watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tV055vmZgvY and at about the 3:20 mark Garret Towne (electrical engineer at AMSolar) explains why I don't think it is right.
    Just watched his video, my design should be 100% fine and is very similar to the diagram they provide (3:50) for how to wire the shunt in.
    2019 GMC Sierra 3500HD Denali Diesel DRW (Crew Cab | 8 Ft bed | OEM Puck System | Curt Gooseneck Ball for OEM Puck | Timbrens on rear axle)
    2019 Grand Design Solitude S-Class 3740BH-R Fifth Wheel (Onan 5500W LP Generator | MORryde CRE3000 and HD Shackles/Wet Bolts | 3x MORryde Cross Members | 8k Axles and Disc Brakes | Sailun S637 ST | Reese GooseBox 20k 2nd Gen | Splendide Stackable Washer and Dryer)
    Full Suite of Victron Energy Products (2x 5k 24v Quattro Inverter/Charger | 2x 25.6/200 LFP Smart LiFePO4 Batteries | 2880w of Solar Panels across 4x MPPTs | Cerbo GX)

  6. #6
    Rolling Along cookinwitdiesel's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Wyoming
    Posts
    650
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Here is a slightly updated diagram - it accounts for some of the "assumptions" I made originally like wiring in the other DC stuff that is in the trailer as well as how I can add additional batteries down the road if needed.

    Need to check on what fuse sizes would be needed in a couple spots but the placeholders are there. Apparently the Blue Sea Systems part no. 2719 is a nice cover that fits over the BMV-712 shunt very well, ordered one.

    My wife asked what I am working on and I explained a little of it to her, she was not impressed, especially once price came up lol. This will be built in phases.

    Phase 1 (parts ordered): BMV-712, Lynx Power In (for batteries), Lynx Power Distribution (for DC loads), and 4x Interstate 6v Golf Cart batteries in 2s2p from Costco. This will pretty much just be adapting the existing system to a cleaner layout inside the front bay and replacing the dealer supplied batteries.

    Phase 2 (some day): Adding in the inverters and CCGX and building out the remaining DC Power Distribution side of things. Depending on how space and other stuff looks, maybe additional 6v batteries (I know they should all be the same age, may "refresh" the originals at this time).

    Phase 3 (the distant future): Add the LiFePO4 batteries to the mix and complete the master plan. This last one may end with me living in the trailer, alone. Haha

    Phase 4: Adding solar to the whole mix seems like an obvious step and should really tie it all together nicely.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails RV Inverter Design MAX Capacity.pdf   RV Inverter Design MAX Capacity Phases.pdf  
    Last edited by cookinwitdiesel; 07-10-2019 at 10:10 PM.
    2019 GMC Sierra 3500HD Denali Diesel DRW (Crew Cab | 8 Ft bed | OEM Puck System | Curt Gooseneck Ball for OEM Puck | Timbrens on rear axle)
    2019 Grand Design Solitude S-Class 3740BH-R Fifth Wheel (Onan 5500W LP Generator | MORryde CRE3000 and HD Shackles/Wet Bolts | 3x MORryde Cross Members | 8k Axles and Disc Brakes | Sailun S637 ST | Reese GooseBox 20k 2nd Gen | Splendide Stackable Washer and Dryer)
    Full Suite of Victron Energy Products (2x 5k 24v Quattro Inverter/Charger | 2x 25.6/200 LFP Smart LiFePO4 Batteries | 2880w of Solar Panels across 4x MPPTs | Cerbo GX)

  7. #7
    Long Hauler howson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    NW Florida
    Posts
    2,816
    Mentioned
    49 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cookinwitdiesel View Post
    ...
    You're right--ultimately it is battery life that's going to limit your system. If you ran the inverters at maximum output your batteries will be flat in a very short time.

    I hope you'll update this as you work through your install--always more to learn about this stuff.
    2017 Ford F-350 DRW 6.7L Platinum
    2019 315RLTS (purchased 16 Jul 18 from Campers Inn RV in Byron, GA)

  8. #8
    Seasoned Camper jh.xsnrg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    299
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cookinwitdiesel View Post
    Here is a slightly updated diagram - it accounts for some of the "assumptions" I made originally like wiring in the other DC stuff that is in the trailer as well as how I can add additional batteries down the road if needed.

    Need to check on what fuse sizes would be needed in a couple spots but the placeholders are there. Apparently the Blue Sea Systems part no. 2719 is a nice cover that fits over the BMV-712 shunt very well, ordered one.

    My wife asked what I am working on and I explained a little of it to her, she was not impressed, especially once price came up lol. This will be built in phases.

    Phase 1 (parts ordered): BMV-712, Lynx Power In (for batteries), Lynx Power Distribution (for DC loads), and 4x Interstate 6v Golf Cart batteries in 2s2p from Costco. This will pretty much just be adapting the existing system to a cleaner layout inside the front bay and replacing the dealer supplied batteries.

    Phase 2 (some day): Adding in the inverters and CCGX and building out the remaining DC Power Distribution side of things. Depending on how space and other stuff looks, maybe additional 6v batteries (I know they should all be the same age, may "refresh" the originals at this time).

    Phase 3 (the distant future): Add the LiFePO4 batteries to the mix and complete the master plan. This last one may end with me living in the trailer, alone. Haha

    Phase 4: Adding solar to the whole mix seems like an obvious step and should really tie it all together nicely.

    The way I explained it to the wife: "It allows you to use your curling iron and hair dryer no matter where we camp"
    2019 F350 6.7L PS SRW CCSB Platinum
    2021 28BH with theater seating and 2nd AC
    2019 Imagine 2400BH w/solar (sold)
    https://rolling.howardweb.info/

  9. #9
    Seasoned Camper IDwanderers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Meridian, Idaho
    Posts
    101
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Take a look at the Gopower 3000 Inverter/Charger. You only need one inverter to power both sides of your panel. Simple to wire up and cheaper than two inverters.
    Lyle & Cathy plus Boomer (English Lab)

    2015 Grand Design Momentum 350M
    2016 RAM 3500 DRW Laramie Limited 4X4
    6.7 Cummins with Aisin Transmission

  10. #10
    Rolling Along cookinwitdiesel's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Wyoming
    Posts
    650
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jh.xsnrg View Post
    The way I explained it to the wife: "It allows you to use your curling iron and hair dryer no matter where we camp"
    My wife is pretty low maintenance so those would not work on her haha
    2019 GMC Sierra 3500HD Denali Diesel DRW (Crew Cab | 8 Ft bed | OEM Puck System | Curt Gooseneck Ball for OEM Puck | Timbrens on rear axle)
    2019 Grand Design Solitude S-Class 3740BH-R Fifth Wheel (Onan 5500W LP Generator | MORryde CRE3000 and HD Shackles/Wet Bolts | 3x MORryde Cross Members | 8k Axles and Disc Brakes | Sailun S637 ST | Reese GooseBox 20k 2nd Gen | Splendide Stackable Washer and Dryer)
    Full Suite of Victron Energy Products (2x 5k 24v Quattro Inverter/Charger | 2x 25.6/200 LFP Smart LiFePO4 Batteries | 2880w of Solar Panels across 4x MPPTs | Cerbo GX)

Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

DISCLAIMER:This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Grand Design RV, LLC or any of its affiliates. This is an independent site.