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  1. #1
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    Ford F-250 towing 303RLS

    I just purchased a 2019 F-250 SWR with the 6.7 diesel 4x4. The vehicle has the #10000 GVWR package. For individuals that have the same truck and trailer package, did you have to add air bags or something similar to handle the pin weight? I previously towed the 303 with a RAM 1500 with air bags, just wondering if I have to do the same for this truck. I haven't had the 5th wheel hitch installed yet, so I can't hook up the trailer and check the amount of squat.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated!

  2. #2
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    I tow my 2019 303RLS with a 2018 F250 Lariat PSD 4X4 using an Anderson hitch. My trailer weighed 10,700 lbs.at a CAT scale so I'm right at the theoritical weight limit for this truck. I do not see a need for airbags since I only have about 2-3 inches of sag when i hitch up the trailer. The trailer rides about 1 1/2 inches nose high with my current setup.
    John & Cindy
    2019 Reflection 303 RLS
    2018 Ford F250 6.7 PSD

  3. #3
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    It does fine. The 10,000 GVWR package is a yellow sticker the put on the door post to allow businesses to avoid having to follow DOT rules they’d have to follow if the GVWR was 10,001. You can also get a magic sticker to lower the GVWR even more for states that require commercial insurance starting at 10,000lbs.

    RAWR is the important number.
    John & Kathy
    2014 F250 Lariat FX4 6.2L SBCC
    2014 Reflection 303RLS
    SW Indiana

  4. #4
    Big Traveler CWSWine's Avatar
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    That is an incorrect statement. GVWR is a chassis rating totally different from the axle ratings. Some of the older members remember when they use to use axles ratings for payload but not true anymore. Weights have increased over the last decade to a point where you can not use axles ratings to determine payload. Here is the head of NTEA and was reprinted in all three major truck manufacture newsletter.



    By Bob Raybuck
Director of Technical Services
NTEA
    Often, GVWR and gross vehicle weight (GVW) are thought to be the same, but they are not. A truck’s GVWR is the maximum weight rating established by the chassis manufacturer. GVW is the total weight of the truck and payload at a point in time.

    There’s a common misconception that a truck’s GVWR is determined by adding gross axle weight ratings (GAWRs) together for all axles. Although this was a common way of calculating GVWR many years ago, it’s no longer an accurate method. The chassis manufacturer task of establishing a vehicle GVWR is much more difficult today due to advancement of safety system standards and how vehicles meet these requirements. This is why many trucks have a GVWR much lower than the combined axle ratings. It is not uncommon for a truck with a GVWR of 19,500 pounds to have a front axle rated at 7,500 pounds and a rear axle rated at 14,700 pounds. Safety standards that apply to braking, vehicle stability, and chassis manufacturer internal standards for durability, dynamic stability and handling can restrict GVWR even though the sum of the axle ratings exceeds 22,000 pounds. In this instance, the OEM set the GVWR at 19,500 pounds based on test results and vehicle dynamic performance to ensure a safe, reliable truck.

    By Bob Raybuck
Director of Technical Services
NTEA

    https://www.ntea.com/NTEA/Member_ben...rk_trucks.aspx





    Quote Originally Posted by jkwilson View Post
    It does fine. The 10,000 GVWR package is a yellow sticker the put on the door post to allow businesses to avoid having to follow DOT rules they’d have to follow if the GVWR was 10,001. You can also get a magic sticker to lower the GVWR even more for states that require commercial insurance starting at 10,000lbs

    RAWR is the important number.
    Dennis & Ellie
    Current 2017 Newmar Ventana Class A & 1994 Airstream Excella Classic Limited Project
    Sold - 310-GK-R Delivered 28 Oct 2016
    2016 GMC Denali 1 Ton Diesel SRW Payload 3727LBS B&W Hitch

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWSWine View Post
    That is an incorrect statement. GVWR is a chassis rating totally different from the axle ratings. Some of the older members remember when they use to use axles ratings for payload but not true anymore. Weights have increased over the last decade to a point where you can not use axles ratings to determine payload. Here is the head of NTEA and was reprinted in all three major truck manufacture newsletter.




    By Bob Raybuck
Director of Technical Services
NTEA
    Often, GVWR and gross vehicle weight (GVW) are thought to be the same, but they are not. A truck’s GVWR is the maximum weight rating established by the chassis manufacturer. GVW is the total weight of the truck and payload at a point in time.

    There’s a common misconception that a truck’s GVWR is determined by adding gross axle weight ratings (GAWRs) together for all axles. Although this was a common way of calculating GVWR many years ago, it’s no longer an accurate method. The chassis manufacturer task of establishing a vehicle GVWR is much more difficult today due to advancement of safety system standards and how vehicles meet these requirements. This is why many trucks have a GVWR much lower than the combined axle ratings. It is not uncommon for a truck with a GVWR of 19,500 pounds to have a front axle rated at 7,500 pounds and a rear axle rated at 14,700 pounds. Safety standards that apply to braking, vehicle stability, and chassis manufacturer internal standards for durability, dynamic stability and handling can restrict GVWR even though the sum of the axle ratings exceeds 22,000 pounds. In this instance, the OEM set the GVWR at 19,500 pounds based on test results and vehicle dynamic performance to ensure a safe, reliable truck.

    By Bob Raybuck
Director of Technical Services
NTEA

    https://www.ntea.com/NTEA/Member_ben...rk_trucks.aspx
    It’s correct. Ford just puts a sticker on a 350 to magically convert it to a 250. Same payload on both trucks as long as they have the same axle. The only thing you need to watch for using a 250 for a rig the size of 303 is RAWR because we know the 250 has the same payload as the 350 if it has the same axle.

    As to the article, anyone who confuses GVW with GVWR shouldn’t be driving a truck with a trailer behind it.
    John & Kathy
    2014 F250 Lariat FX4 6.2L SBCC
    2014 Reflection 303RLS
    SW Indiana

  6. #6
    Big Traveler CWSWine's Avatar
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    First, lookup on the internet a PN for a rear-end carrier bearing and bring the number into Fords Parts Counter and try to order it. The first thing he is going to ask is what year - then what model truck. Now tell him is Super Duty and when ask if F250 or F350 tell him it doesn't make any difference. He going say, yes it does the lots of part numbers some for F250 and F350 and the computer selects the correct part for the correct year/model truck. Then he goes into a rant saying he thinks Ford is gouging because the bearings look the same but the one for the F350 cost few bucks more. He showed me on that had F250 marked on the pack and one marked F250/F350 and they looked identical except for the dash number on the part number and the price. Try it. sometime.


    Quote Originally Posted by jkwilson View Post
    It’s correct. Ford just puts a sticker on a 350 to magically convert it to a 250. Same payload on both trucks as long as they have the same axle. The only thing you need to watch for using a 250 for a rig the size of 303 is RAWR because we know the 250 has the same payload as the 350 if it has the same axle.

    As to the article, anyone who confuses GVW with GVWR shouldn’t be driving a truck with a trailer behind it.
    Dennis & Ellie
    Current 2017 Newmar Ventana Class A & 1994 Airstream Excella Classic Limited Project
    Sold - 310-GK-R Delivered 28 Oct 2016
    2016 GMC Denali 1 Ton Diesel SRW Payload 3727LBS B&W Hitch

  7. #7
    Seasoned Camper Beachcamper's Avatar
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    I thought the F350 SRW diesel has a few more pounds of payload than the 250 and that was the reason I bought it to pull my 303. We fulltime and had the 303 weighed at the rally. We are at 12050 GVW with 20 gallons of freshwater in tank. We now only carry 10 gallons and got rid of a few things to bring it down to 11995. What was interesting to me was the pin weight and glad I have a few extra pounds of payload. Pin weight on 303 at weigh in was 2800lbs. Here is my payload sticker on my truck. It’s diesel, 4x4 and in a basic XL configuration. The cost difference was only $2k between F250 and F350 but I pay more for annual registration than my friends with F250’s due to higher weight. But that is not a lot of payload left.


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Beachcamper; 07-21-2019 at 07:00 AM.
    Vivian
    2018 Reflection 303rls
    2018 Ford F-350 SRW Diesel



  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie_diaz View Post
    I just purchased a 2019 F-250 SWR with the 6.7 diesel 4x4. The vehicle has the #10000 GVWR package. For individuals that have the same truck and trailer package, did you have to add air bags or something similar to handle the pin weight? I previously towed the 303 with a RAM 1500 with air bags, just wondering if I have to do the same for this truck. I haven't had the 5th wheel hitch installed yet, so I can't hook up the trailer and check the amount of squat.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated!
    Dang Ernie, I see this is your first post and you immediately stirred up the hornet's nest. Many here will tell you that your truck is totally over-matched by that trailer and that you should have bought a F-350. That is water under the bridge at this point. You have the truck you have and it will do a great job for you. It will likely be over or right at GVWR/payload but under every other rating (front axle, rear axle, tires, wheels, GCWR, etc.). In comparison to a F-350, your truck will have different leaf springs and (most likely) a different rear axle. Literally very other component will be identical. From a practical standpoint, your F-250 will tow like a dream compared to your RAM 1500. Walk around any RV park and you will see that a vast majority of 5th wheel tow vehicles on the road are 250/2500 and most of them are pulling trailers heavier than yours with no issues.

    It will likely squat more than you would like. Do you have overloads (camper package)? if so, that will help to minimize squat. Without overloads, you will almost certainly end up putting some sort of suspension enhancement on it. My truck has overload springs and I added Torklift StableLoad upper overloads. Once installed, you don't need to mess with them. With my fully loaded trailer hitched up, my truck is level. Enjoy your new truck!
    2019 F250 Platinum, 6.7, LB, FX4, High Capacity Tow Package
    B & W Companion
    2019 303RLS

  9. #9
    Setting Up Camp
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD68 View Post
    Dang Ernie, I see this is your first post and you immediately stirred up the hornet's nest. Many here will tell you that your truck is totally over-matched by that trailer and that you should have bought a F-350. That is water under the bridge at this point. You have the truck you have and it will do a great job for you. It will likely be over or right at GVWR/payload but under every other rating (front axle, rear axle, tires, wheels, GCWR, etc.). In comparison to a F-350, your truck will have different leaf springs and (most likely) a different rear axle. Literally very other component will be identical. From a practical standpoint, your F-250 will tow like a dream compared to your RAM 1500. Walk around any RV park and you will see that a vast majority of 5th wheel tow vehicles on the road are 250/2500 and most of them are pulling trailers heavier than yours with no issues.

    It will likely squat more than you would like. Do you have overloads (camper package)? if so, that will help to minimize squat. Without overloads, you will almost certainly end up putting some sort of suspension enhancement on it. My truck has overload springs and I added Torklift StableLoad upper overloads. Once installed, you don't need to mess with them. With my fully loaded trailer hitched up, my truck is level. Enjoy your new truck!
    LOL! Thanks Jeff, I have that kind of affect on people. The reality is, I do appreciate all their comments, and they are probably 100% correct. But to your point, I see most people towing these 5’ers with 250/2500’s and bigger trailer than mine. So that being the case, I can’t wait to hook up the trailer and see how it tows (spray-in liner and hitch rails going in tomorrow). I’ll look into the overloads you mentioned, I installed bags in the 1500 and they worked great, I was just hoping to avoid changing the ride of the vehicle.

    I read in another thread, people saying that this truck is not enough for the 303’s. Someone replied, if that’s the case, then what do the owners of Solitudes and Momentum’s need, F450/F550/F650? Again, I understand the argument, and by the numbers, I don’t disagree, it just doesn’t seem feasible. Maybe the issue is that I haven’t gotten into a dangerous situation where my truck was outclassed and I couldn’t control my rig. Hopefully that will never happen.

    I’ve been towing since I learned how to drive, I’m very comfortable and confident with my abilities. I welcome these comments because it wasn’t till I purchased a bigger trailer that I started to to pay attention to these numbers and the capacity of my vehicles. I used to just look at the tow capacity of the truck, and if my tow vehicle could pull more, I’m good, I now know that’s just incorrect.

    BTW, I felt my 1500 towed it well, even though it was totally out classed. I switched vehicles because I figured long term, it was going to bring problems and I was limited to only towing in South Florida due to the flat terrain (there could be worse places). Not saying I’m going to tow this rig up Pikes Peak, but I don’t want to be limited.

  10. #10
    Rolling Along backtrack2015's Avatar
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    If your F250 is mechanically identical to the F350 (optioned with same axle and springs), I really can't see any technical reason not to use 11500# as your GVWR (to match the F350). I wouldn't advise going higher than that because you'll have zero chance of presenting a coherent engineering defense for any higher number. Below that number you *might* be able to argue it was safe based on being mechanically identical to an F350 (unless CWSWine is correct, in which case the logic fails completely). It seems quite unlikely that anyone in the USA will bother to check your weights unless you get in an accident.
    2017 F-350 CCSB 6.7L
    2021 Micro Minnie 2100BH
    previously - Reflection 28BH, Intech Pursue

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