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  1. #21
    Fireside Member Susan_S's Avatar
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    Hi Bjarret7. My husband and I are novices to the RV world. I did a lot of research (that's my gig) and found nothing great that is said about any of the companies. Depending upon who you talk to, the greatest is then the worst(est). :-) Our biggest problem is that we wanted a 5th wheel. We put a deposit on a VanLeigh and then found our truck wouldn't carry it. Frankly, I was in love with a lot of the RVs I saw and it was apparent that there are differences, in the construction, wood, flooring, etc. but like a home, it's what is appealing AND what is affordable.

    Ok to fast forward, I somehow came across Grand Design. I fell in love with a lot of their floor plans and I found that people spoke highly of their customer service. In May we pulled the trigger and purchased the 297RSTS. Frankly we've had a lot of issues. One of the aspects is we purchased a 2019 that was built in October of 2018 off of the lot in May 2019. I can imagine how many people went through it and turned the knobs, opened the blinds, turned on the sink, etc. I'm also willing to admit some of the stuff was because we're such novices that we did things wrong and broke things. .

    What I want to make a point of is that we have used it for some small trips. Things that were not working properly or that we broke were all fixed as warranty items. Our latest and greatest is that our trip, our longest trip that we are on now, from VT to Colorado, to Kentucky and back over about 25 days found us without hot water outside of Indiana. I called Grand Design and they gave us an appointment the following day. We went to their "plant" where you can spend the night with water and electric, and they replaced the hot water heater and sent us on our way, graciously. I was very impressed by them getting us in at the last minute and how gracious and kind everyone was. The customer service manager I spoke with was so wonderful actually going out of her way to reach out to me when my emails were not getting to her as she had asked. I felt like they had my back.

    Prior to this I wanted a Jayco. I called their customer service rep. and left a message. Two weeks later I received a call back that he was sorry but he had been out of the country and just received my message.

    Anyway, we love our RV. I actually have a great intuitive feeling about Grand Design. I want the 380FL 5th wheel and when I can convince my husband we will get it, and we'll need a new truck so it will take a lot of convincing. But I want to tell you not to have buyers remorse. It seems there are as many brands and models of RVs as their are flavors of ice cream. What suits one person will not suit another. And like cars, sometimes you're lucky and sometimes...ugh. But still I think that it's a great company with great customer service.

    Sue... xoxo

  2. #22
    Fireside Member Susan_S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ken2017 View Post
    We switched from Forest River to GD based on their quality claims. The GD quality is worse than Forest River. I've owned 8 RVs; 3 5th wheel, 3 bumper pull, 2 popups.

    The dealer depends on GD to tell them what they can or need to fix. The GD 'Lippert slide' expert should call Lippert before they tell the dealer the gear pack can't be adjusted when one side closes too tightly. I ended up fixing the slide myself and in fact I've fixed most every problem myself, at least those I can fix. After 3 months on the dealer lot waiting for Lippert to inspect the frame for the factory, they found missing screws through the frame into the sidewall by the bedroom slide. That was supposedly the problem. That did not stop the flexing problem. The frame appears to be failing. After a recent trip I noticed the frame pushing outward in the right rear corner and distorting the skirt below the floor. Looks like a weld has broken in the right rear corner.

    Here is a partial list. Stripped screws everywhere, broken screws, slides maladjusted, screws missing through the frame into the side walls, stripped bolt holding the front roof air conditioner, camera circuit wired incorrectly, slide bushing sinking and allowing the slide to scrape the floor, suspension sagging on the left side and getting worse, attic vent installed incorrectly, 3 wet shackle bushings installed incorrectly, 5th wheel frame flexing below the bedroom making it impossible to keep the joints sealed, frame bending and warping the skirt on the right rear corner.

    I would not buy another GD product.

    Ken
    2017 27RL
    Hi Ken,
    I wondered if you'd called GD customer service or tried to get in touch with a manager. It sounds like you have some major issues. I'm sorry to hear of it.

    I have owned BMWs for about 20 years. I convinced my friend's husband that they are the best. He purchased one. He was driving back from Fl to NJ when the engine blew and some other components were damaged. They offered him a new one at a reduced price. He took that. It too had issues and he's never buying another BMW. He now has a Porsche so I'm not feeling too badly for him but you get my drift.

    However, you seem very knowledgeable. I'm sure I wouldn't know a bushing from a ..... Do you think it's just a bad build? I mean if this was the rule not the exception shouldn't they be out of business? I'm not challenging you nor is my intent to be disrespectful to you....please I can imagine it can be interpreted many ways...but did you get a bad build and should you contact someone up the ladder of importance?

    Sue

  3. #23
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    Same here...I went through a whole year of he** with my 2017 Grand Design POS as the dealer I bought from would do NOTHING to fix the several pages of problems. For starters anything with Lippert stamped on it should be recycled into metal garbage cans,one would get better service out of it.I miss my old 2003 Hitchhiker in a bad way and wish I could find another late model Hitchhiker with the well built chassis and quality construction...unlike anything GD pushes out the back door.

  4. #24
    Site Sponsor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Susan_S View Post
    Hi Ken,
    I wondered if you'd called GD customer service or tried to get in touch with a manager. It sounds like you have some major issues. I'm sorry to hear of it.

    I have owned BMWs for about 20 years. I convinced my friend's husband that they are the best. He purchased one. He was driving back from Fl to NJ when the engine blew and some other components were damaged. They offered him a new one at a reduced price. He took that. It too had issues and he's never buying another BMW. He now has a Porsche so I'm not feeling too badly for him but you get my drift.

    However, you seem very knowledgeable. I'm sure I wouldn't know a bushing from a ..... Do you think it's just a bad build? I mean if this was the rule not the exception shouldn't they be out of business? I'm not challenging you nor is my intent to be disrespectful to you....please I can imagine it can be interpreted many ways...but did you get a bad build and should you contact someone up the ladder of importance?

    Sue
    Hi Sue,

    I have not spoken to the factory myself. I am not sure the factory would tell me anything different than they tell their dealer. I do trust my dealer. However, you make a good suggestion and I will contact the factory as I near the point where I feel I have exhausted my options through the dealer. I've owned a car or two with quality/design issues, but nothing like this.

    Thus far, I think the dealer has made every effort to convince GD that the frame and suspension are serious complaints and seek support from the factory, but they appear to be at the mercy of the factory. But with minimal results. In cases where the factory gave the dealer incorrect advice, the dealer believes the factory. As just ONE example, I fixed the slide alignment problem that chewed up two sets of rubber gaskets after a 10 minute call to Lippert tech support. I did not want to have my RV sit at the dealer again for 2-3 months waiting for a third slide gasket replacement.

    I believe you are correct, my RV is a 'bad build'. This is evident by the positive experiences of some owners. Perhaps my RV was not subjected to the same level of quality control. I met an owner in SD last year with a 2018 5th wheel Reflection and they had some of the same problems. Leaving screws that secure the sidewall to the frame suggests there is a serious problem with quality control on at least one RV. These defects are hidden from the eyes of the buyer and not something the dealer could pick up on the delivery inspection. Allowing a misaligned slide to leave the factory that chews up the rubber and skins the paint off the slide sidewall trim is significant indication of an issue with the inspection process. I can list other items both simple and serious that should have been identified at the factory.

    This RV was at the dealer for a total of 5 1/2 months of the first year and little was resolved. I have not returned the trailer to the dealer to report the new frame issue or the failure of the repair they made last fall at the front cap below the bedroom slide. The new frame problem at the right rear showed up in July after an extended trip.

    GD uses many of the same materials, third-party components and manufacturing techniques as the other manufacturers and I've had SOME of the exact same problems with other RVs. I like the Reflection with exception of the quality or design issues. The owner of a new RV should not have to deal with simple issues like stripped screws or major issues like the 5th wheel frame or suspension and weight distribution design problems. In my experience GD quality is slightly below average as compared to the previous 2 5th wheel trailers I've owned.

    I will be making another trip the dealer 70 miles away with more pictures and written documentation. The 3 year structural warranty is still in force and I have an extended warranty. The dealer told me some customers have taken their RV back to the factory but could not say the issues were resolved. I found the comment troubling as the advice given the dealer by the factory on several of my complaints would suggest the factory is more the problem than the dealer.

    We will see what happens next. Thank you for your suggestion.

    Regards,
    Ken
    2017 27RL

  5. #25
    Seasoned Camper Dreamin' Dreamers's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear of all your troubles, Ken. Have you at this point considered a lemon law attorney? It sounds to me that GD should replace the whole unit. And that could happen once some legal pressure is applied. Yes it’s a pain but as a consumer you should have the same quality most of us get to experience! I bought a used 315 RLTS and was just waiting for issues but it is a cream puff with only a couple of issues. Great quality is possible and you should demand it. I’ve talked to GD and they seem like good folks. Initiate a call and see what happens.
    DD
    Duane, Mary Jo, and Milo the dog = Full Timers.
    2019 Ford F-350 Super Duty Lariat 4x4 6.7 psd
    2019 GD Momentum 351M
    2016 BMW R1200 GS

  6. #26
    Seasoned Camper FordmanNJ's Avatar
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    Hi,

    My family and I love our Reflection 285BHTS. We have owned this rig for over a year now. The initial honeymoon is over. It tows great and easier than our previous trailer. Our previous trailer was only 31 feet long and weighed 6000 pounds. It had torsion based axles. It was pretty low to the ground so any incline was entertainment. I think we are talking about maybe 10 or so inches of clearance. 1 dealer trip back for an issue we had while in storage but didn't happen while camping. I have performed a number of additional upgrades to the unit which has made life in the trailer that much nicer. I enjoy the quickness of set of this trailer over our previous one. A couple presses of the buttons and it's done. No real complaints. It hit all of our checklist desires. Also our rig gets a number of compliments when we go camping. We have had friends and family over. They are amazed about the overall look, feel and use of interior and exterior space. Because of our trailer, I have several friends looking at Grand Designs for their next trailer that didn't think about it before. A few other them never heard of the brand either!

    Good luck with your purchase!
    2016 Ford F-350 Super Duty XLT CCSB 4x4 6.2 gasser 3.73 E locker
    2018 Grand Design Reflection 285BHS

  7. #27
    Left The Driveway
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    Thanks everyone for all of your advice and help. We picked up our reflection to 87 or LTS on Monday and have been camping in it ever since. We will have spent one week in it on our first shake down trip when we head home Monday. So far we love it! We haven’t had any trouble or issues. We are super happy with the way it tows, the easy set up, and the overall comfort. So glad we made this decision.

  8. #28
    Big Traveler Calbar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarrett7 View Post
    Thanks everyone for all of your advice and help. We picked up our reflection to 87 or LTS on Monday and have been camping in it ever since. We will have spent one week in it on our first shake down trip when we head home Monday. So far we love it! We haven’t had any trouble or issues. We are super happy with the way it tows, the easy set up, and the overall comfort. So glad we made this decision.
    Glad to hear that you went for it and it is working out well for you without any issues.

    Rob
    Rob & Barb
    2022 Solitude 378MBS
    2022 RAM 3500 SRW HO Aisin 4x4
    Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

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