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  1. #1
    Fireside Member tvhorman's Avatar
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    DC Electric problem-Rear Lights Fuse-2016 300GK

    Greetings, I am not an electrician, but I do have a basic/fair/working knowledge of electricity and how to use a Volt/Ohm meter. The 15 amp (DC) fuse for the "rear lights" blew. The "rear lights" circuit appears to have 6 switches (under the forward cupboard) and one of the camper style lights in pantry. I replaced the fuse with a 15 amp, turned on the main overhead lights and it worked for about 1 minute then blew the fuse again. I thought, OK I have a bad wire somewhere, somehow. I figured I would replace the fuse and then turn on lights one system at a time but now the fuse pops as soon as I put it in the socket. Ok, so I pulled down all of the switches and pulled the wires off each one such that it appears to me that there is no way a circuit could exist but yet when I put in another fuse it pops immediately. Yes, the switches have proper continuity both on and off, besides I disconnected them from the system. I also pulled the full electrical panel so I could look and trace wires. I didn't see any obvious short circuit issues. I also moved the wire that powers the "rear lights" off the post terminal on the panel just in case the terminal was bad but the same experience from the updated position on the panel. Yes, when the fuse pops the red light illuminates showing me the failed circuit. I dropped all of the lights to verify a good connection and yes they were all good, nothing loose or chewed. I am now thinking that a critter ate a wire so I also was paying attention for tell tail signs for rodent infestation but nope, no signs of critters! It seems that the DC wiring is closed, is that right? I see wires going back to the grounding bar so I presume there isn't a "frame" type ground as far as this circuit is concerned. Is that correct thinking? When I check ground continuity it is good. When I check the positive wire to the ground on any of the circuits, I do not get a closed circuit (continuity). I'm stumped, any ideas? Thanks!
    Ted & Marti
    2023 Solitude 310-GK
    2022 Ram 3500, SRW
    Birders & Half-timers

  2. #2
    Fireside Member tvhorman's Avatar
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    DC Electrical problem

    I posted this in the General Discussion as well, just in case..
    Greetings, I am not an electrician, but I do have a basic/fair/working knowledge of electricity and how to use a Volt/Ohm meter. The 15 amp (DC) fuse for the "rear lights" blew. The "rear lights" circuit appears to have 6 switches (under the forward cupboard) and one of the camper style lights in pantry. I replaced the fuse with a 15 amp, turned on the main overhead lights and it worked for about 1 minute then blew the fuse again. I thought, OK I have a bad wire somewhere, somehow. I figured I would replace the fuse and then turn on lights one system at a time but now the fuse pops as soon as I put it in the socket. Ok, so I pulled down all of the switches and pulled the wires off each one such that it appears to me that there is no way a circuit could exist but yet when I put in another fuse it pops immediately. Yes, the switches have proper continuity both on and off, besides I disconnected them from the system. I also pulled the full electrical panel so I could look and trace wires. I didn't see any obvious short circuit issues. I also moved the wire that powers the "rear lights" off the post terminal on the panel just in case the terminal was bad but the same experience from the updated position on the panel. Yes, when the fuse pops the red light illuminates showing me the failed circuit. I dropped all of the lights to verify a good connection and yes they were all good, nothing loose or chewed. I am now thinking that a critter ate a wire so I also was paying attention for tell tail signs for rodent infestation but nope, no signs of critters! It seems that the DC wiring is closed, is that right? I see wires going back to the grounding bar so I presume there isn't a "frame" type ground as far as this circuit is concerned. Is that correct thinking? When I check ground continuity it is good. When I check the positive wire to the ground on any of the circuits, I do not get a closed circuit (continuity). I'm stumped, any ideas? Thanks!
    Ted & Marti
    2023 Solitude 310-GK
    2022 Ram 3500, SRW
    Birders & Half-timers

  3. #3
    Site Sponsor TheGuy's Avatar
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    You might try:
    Remove the fuse.

    Disconnect the supply at each switch. Take an ohm Reading between it and the panel or converter or something else known to be grounded. If that shows a short you found your problem leg. If not leave it disconnected and try the next one.

    If you don't find anything then odds are they're wired is a series parallel arrangements and one switch has the backhaul for the rest. You'd find that by mapping out continuity between the switch supplies to the other switch supplies.

    Just a thought as I sit here... Take it for what it's worth. :-)

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
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  4. #4
    Site Sponsor TheGuy's Avatar
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    Of course if your trailer is like mine was, you have loose connections all over... In which case one may have fallen off and is resting on the AL framing.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
    2015 Chevy 1500 5.3L LT-Z71 Double Cab Standard Bed
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  5. #5
    Fireside Member tvhorman's Avatar
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    Thanks for your time and advise TheGuy. I have worked hard to trace the wires and I just don’t see where it would ground out. It is maddening that only one wire comes out of the panel and drives all the lights. It’s crazy that if one is grounded out that it fails the whole system. They seem to have changed the color code at some point when routing through the frame. Example: The orange/white wire that leaves the switch for the lights over the dinette on the slide-out, change to blue when I get to the actual light! I’ve looked at the wire bundle outside and under both slide-outs and they seem to be intact and not damaged however I see that they are a different type wire and different colors!. I guess I’ll pull the access panels in the pass through compartment and look to see if I can trace the wires as they come down the bulkhead/column from the electrical panel. I’m also guessing that my fundamental knowledge is not enough to figure this out.
    Ted & Marti
    2023 Solitude 310-GK
    2022 Ram 3500, SRW
    Birders & Half-timers

  6. #6
    Long Hauler howson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tvhorman View Post
    I'm stumped, any ideas? Thanks!
    I'm not an electrician, either, but I've troubleshot a few circuits.

    SAFETY FIRST--please be careful working around live circuits. Electricity doesn't give a hoot how many times you've done it right--one mistake and you'll be rewarded with a nice puff of blue smoke. *Please* stop and call a qualified electrician/RV mechanic if you're not sure what you're doing (or why).

    The diagram below is a simplified version of how I'm interpreting your text. Even with all the wires to the switches disconnected the fuse still blows.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	simple diagram.JPG 
Views:	10 
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ID:	21715

    Conditions: all switch and lights reconnected as you found them, NO fuse installed, 12+ power applied
    1) Check for 12vDC on one side of the fuse holder (in the diagram it's "1"). Note the side that has power. Now check the other side--there should be 0 volts.

    Conditions: all switch and lights reconnected as you found them, NO fuse installed, ALL power disconnected (battery and external AC)
    1) Check between the pin that had power and ground. What is the ohm reading? (I expect--hope!--it's infinite resistance, i.e. an "open".)
    2) Check between the pin that did NOT have power and ground. What is the ohm reading? My guess is it will be less than infinite if not a short.

    If I'm right, the problem lies between imaginary pin "2" in my drawing and one of the red "X's". One of them is causing the problem and it may not be the "dead short" that would make finding the problem easy. (Sorry!)

    Good luck--and post back the results.

    -Howard
    2017 Ford F-350 DRW 6.7L Platinum
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  7. #7
    Site Sponsor gbkims's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tvhorman View Post
    Thanks for your time and advise TheGuy. I have worked hard to trace the wires and I just don’t see where it would ground out. It is maddening that only one wire comes out of the panel and drives all the lights. It’s crazy that if one is grounded out that it fails the whole system. They seem to have changed the color code at some point when routing through the frame. Example: The orange/white wire that leaves the switch for the lights over the dinette on the slide-out, change to blue when I get to the actual light! I’ve looked at the wire bundle outside and under both slide-outs and they seem to be intact and not damaged however I see that they are a different type wire and different colors!. I guess I’ll pull the access panels in the pass through compartment and look to see if I can trace the wires as they come down the bulkhead/column from the electrical panel. I’m also guessing that my fundamental knowledge is not enough to figure this out.
    You've done so very good troubleshooting on this problem. This one's a real pain I can see.
    Does anything else beside lights stop working with the fuse blown, like Rear Air Conditioner, Ceiling Vent Fan?
    Just wondered as my rig has a couple of circuits with multiple devices on them.
    Wonder why the fuse lasted a bit the 1st time it was replaced and then blew immediately afterwards.
    Wonder if a circuit board went bad or a partial shorted wire fully shorted out.

    Yes the 12V DC circuits are usually a duplex wire pair of white with tracer color for +12V and white for -12V.
    The -12V white wires return to the DC Panel versus the frame. There is also a separate bond wire down to the frame from the panel.

    I've traced out some circuits once, so my memory is relying on my chicken scratch notes that I've tried to put down on paper. So I think I've got a few mistakes.
    My Rear Overhead fuse has: Island Lights, Kitchen Roof Fan, Rear Air Conditioner 12V, Rear Furrion Camera 12V.
    My Awning fuse has: Schwintek Slide Controller Switch Input, Porch Step Light, Stair Light, Water Pump, Awning Extend/Retract.

    Have also found some wires that change color.
    My left hand slide circuit for RV Frig, Stove Fan & Light, Left Hand Slide Lights starts as WH-OR, then changes to WH-RD in the underbelly, then back to WH-OR inside a cabinet.

    I expect your Solitude has several differences in wiring compared to my rig. Just attaching my drawings in case they help.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 317RST DC Fuse Panel.pdf   317RST Convenience Center Switches Wiring.pdf  
    - Gene

    Kim & Gene
    2015 Reflection 317RST
    2017 Ram 3500 CC LB 4x2 6.7 CTD AISIN 3.73 DRW Auto Level Rear Air, BD3, Prodigy P3, Aux Tank

  8. #8
    Site Team traveldawg's Avatar
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    I think I followed your notes.... It sounds like the 15a fuse to the light switches under your cupboard blows even if you disconnect all the switches.

    If that's the case then the wire from the fuse panel up to the cupboard is bad. Maybe you can run a temporary wire up there and see what happens. Or at least run a 12v device off that circuit directly from he fuse panel to be sure it isn't the DC distribution block.

    If you remove the fuse and have removed all the switches (loads) from that circuit you can put an ohm meter on the wire to see that it: 1) had continuity; 2) isn't shorted.

    I hope something I mentioned helps.
    Larry KE4DMG
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  9. #9
    Fireside Member tvhorman's Avatar
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    Howson, thanks for your review. Yes, I am very aware of the Safety aspect, I was an Aviation Safety Officer in the Military. I will take an in depth look at your thoughts and post what I find. Thanks again.
    Ted & Marti
    2023 Solitude 310-GK
    2022 Ram 3500, SRW
    Birders & Half-timers

  10. #10
    Fireside Member tvhorman's Avatar
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    Gene, thanks for your compliment on the troubleshooting, just wish I was able to find a remedy. Thanks for taking the time to think this through!
    To answer your questions:
    Does anything else beside lights stop working with the fuse blown, like Rear Air Conditioner, Ceiling Vent Fan? No, only the lights associated with the aft portion of the coach-overhead (rear lights 15 amp fuse), over kitchen island, over dinning table/settee (curb side slide), pantry, cupboard and over cupboard decoration lights are affected. The "televator", fans, fridge etc all work. The "circuit board" that the wires connect from seems to be OK. I moved the trouble wire from its original spot thinking the same thing but alas I have the same issue.
    I agree with your statements on the wires. I'm going to enter the pass through area behind the wall to see if anything is wrong then I guess peel back some of the coroplast to see what's what!
    I'll post what I find. Thanks again!
    Ted & Marti
    2023 Solitude 310-GK
    2022 Ram 3500, SRW
    Birders & Half-timers

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