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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhittleBurner View Post
    I'm afraid the diesels may be going the same route as the old gas engine cars like dodges slant 6. When they had to start putting catalytic converters on them they lost power, gas milage and started having mechanical problems. Shortly after that they went away. Diesels will not go away but putting 3 or 4 hundred thousand trouble free miles on them may be a thing of the past.
    Interesting discussion here. I think the main reason we saw the demise of the straight 6 engines was the uneven fuel distribution with those log manifolds. Emission constraints couldn't be met, so they went away.
    Not to hijack a Ford gasser thread, but has anyone looked at the numbers on GM's new 6.6 gasser?

  2. #52
    Seasoned Camper Calnca's Avatar
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    At the end of the day torque is what moves big loads and 475 doesn’t even get in the game compared to my 900+ when it comes to 20,000 +/- trailer and these small hills we have here in the West.......I’ll stay with my diesel
    Cal, Marsha and Bear the Labradoodle
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  3. #53
    Setting Up Camp Unit88's Avatar
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    Interesting thread...I’ve had 4 diesel Pickups...2 duramax and 2 powerstrokes...the 1st dmax was an expensive truck to maintain...and the only one that had a failure (injection pump) i nver bought a Cummins because several friends of mine had tranny issues and downtime. A couple of them have switched to ford and chevy...none of their stock configured cummins have anything on the new dmax or powerstroke....IMO...I went with the 2019 powerstroke because my 2013 was such a good truck....i like having 900 pound ft of torque @ 2000 rpm...and it delivers 19-20 mpg running unloaded....no gasser that i have come across will pull with it without drinking way more fuel and screaming at 5000 rpm...I did get the extended 100% warranty to 150k for under 5k....it pulls our 303rls real nice....and the mirrors, lighting, seats, ergo, and power make this truck really fun to drive with and without the 5th attached. I’ll stay with diesels!!

  4. #54
    Rolling Along johndeerefarmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DougW9876 View Post
    When I first saw they were making a bigger gas engine for pickups, I wondered why they don’t go ahead an make it an ecoboost. The ecoboost I had in our F150 and even the little 4 cyl in the Mustang give pretty impressive performance, put that technology on a 7.3 and you will have a mighty good running engine.
    I agree but the ecoboost can't handle the continuous load that some of the commercial guys will put on the engine. Ford could make an ecoboost version for the F250, F350 and set the power around 400 hp and 600 lb feet. With the torque curve of an ecoboost it would be a great towing truck for the lighter loads
    Donald AKA johndeerefarmer
    2020 Ford F350 Powerstroke diesel
    2017 F150 ecoboost max tow
    2016 Reflection 29RS VIN# 573FR322XG3305717

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by johndeerefarmer View Post
    I agree but the ecoboost can't handle the continuous load that some of the commercial guys will put on the engine. Ford could make an ecoboost version for the F250, F350 and set the power around 400 hp and 600 lb feet. With the torque curve of an ecoboost it would be a great towing truck for the lighter loads
    It should handle the load just fine if it can do as good as this one, and this was a few years ago so the new ones should be even better.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_jCmu6qJXX4
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  6. #56
    Rolling Along johndeerefarmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DougW9876 View Post
    It should handle the load just fine if it can do as good as this one, and this was a few years ago so the new ones should be even better.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_jCmu6qJXX4
    I have had four of 'em. I got one of the first '11's when they come out, also a '13, '16 and now a '17. Notice the part in the video about the glowing manifold? Well that's the problem. These engines runs so hot the manifolds warp and start leaking. If you tow heavy and do a lot of it the manifolds warp. Aftermarket is now making ceramic coated exhaust manifolds to combat this problem.
    Now imagine, instead of a guy pulling a RV all summer but a commercial guy with a steel bed and carrying thousands of lbs of tools.....
    I sold all of my previous ecoboosts before it happened. This one is getting "light" duty as the SD does the heavy work
    Donald AKA johndeerefarmer
    2020 Ford F350 Powerstroke diesel
    2017 F150 ecoboost max tow
    2016 Reflection 29RS VIN# 573FR322XG3305717

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjmjunior View Post
    Super Duty F-250 and F-350 - 430 horsepower at 5500 RPM and 475 lb-ft of torque at 4000 RPM.
    F 450, F-550, F-600, F-650, and F-750 - 350 horsepower and 468 lb-ft of torque at 3900 RPM.

    https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...iter-v8-specs/
    I just realized something. It has 105 HP more than my 04 6.0 and only 85 lb-ft less. Given current fuel/gas prices this could be my next engine, But I will wait to 2021 for them to get the bugs out and see fuel mileage. My 04 6.0 does fine pulling my 220RK so this could be even better. 04 6.0 specifications is 325 HP and 560 lb-ft torque
    2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th wheel with 6K axle upgrade. B&W 25K OEM Companion, Steadyfast system, 2022 F350 SRW 6.7 King Ranch 8' bed, Trailer reverse lights, rear spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, and Solar

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerscol View Post
    I just realized something. It has 105 HP more than my 04 6.0 and only 85 lb-ft less. Given current fuel/gas prices this could be my next engine, But I will wait to 2021 for them to get the bugs out and see fuel mileage. My 04 6.0 does fine pulling my 220RK so this could be even better. 04 6.0 specifications is 325 HP and 560 lb-ft torque
    Just keep in mind that its not just about the peak number. Those gas numbers come at the top of the RPM range while the diesel numbers peak at a much lower RPM and typically have a flatter torque curve. Regardless, towing lighter, gas at the very least is a viable option and maybe the better option.
    2021 Solitude 375 RES-R
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  9. #59
    Site Sponsor Dale G's Avatar
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    Everyone always states that the diesel makes its power at a lot lower RPM than a gas engine does. This is a true statement, sort of. If you are just looking at the actual numbers where the engines make their power, then yes, that is true. But you have to actually look at the entire RPM range of both engines and where that engine is making its power, from 0 to redline. I think you will find they are making their power at about the same area, a little past halfway. People say they don't like gas engines because you have to have them screaming at 5000RPM for them to make power. Max HP is always up around redline so isn't a diesel screaming near its redline when it is making max HP? Don't you have to push any engine to near redline to get it to make max HP? But when we are towing aren't we more concerned about torque and keeping the RPM in the torque curve so it tows best? A new 6.7L diesel with 3.31 gears and 18" tires will turn 1528RPM at 70MPH, 3.55 gears will be 1639RPM. The new diesel produces its best torque at 1600RPM. The new 7.3L gas with 4.30 gears and 18" tires will turn 1985RPM at 70MPH. If you look at the torque curve this engine is producing around 425ft/lbs of torque at 2000RPM then climbs and flattens out at around 450ft/lbs and 2500RPM and holds that until after 3000RPM where it starts climbing again to its peak of 475ft/lbs at 4000RPM. After that you will actually see a drop in torque until you hit the max HP value at 5500RPM. Lock the transmission into 9th gear and you will be turning 2174RPM, 8th gear and you will be turning 2678RPM and 450 ft/lbs of torque. Seventh gear will give you 3182RPM. Sixth gear will give you 4033RPM and your max torque. When climbing a hill don't you want to be in the area from 2000RPM to 4000RPM to get the best torque numbers for pulling a hill? That is hardly screaming for a gas engine, but a diesel yes 4000RPM would be over redline. My dad had an older 7.3L diesel that did not have as much power as this new gas engine does and he never had any problems towing a large camper all over the Rocky Mountains so I would imagine this engine would do just as well. Will the new super diesels pull the hills better and with power to spare, sure they will, but I think this engine could easily handle a 15,000 to 16,000lbs fifth wheel with a dry pin weight of 2500lbs in any terrain and have the payload to do it where the diesel would have to be a DRW to have enough payload. The F350 4x4 with the 7.3L and 4.30 gears is rated at 20,200lbs for fifth wheels and the 6.7L diesel with either the 3.31 or 3.55 gears is rated at 22,000lbs, just 1800lbs different. They both are rated at 15,000lbs for conventional towing. I would hope that Ford wouldn't rate this engine at 20,200lbs if it wasn't capable of towing that load anywhere in the United States in all terrains. It might climb the hill slower than the diesel but I think it will still climb the hill with ease if you use your gears and keep it in the RPM range for best towing, say 2000 to 4000RPM. I do the same thing with my 2015 3.5L Ecoboost towing my 8100lbs camper when I am climbing a long hill, I kick the transmission down to the gear that puts me in the best part of the torque curve and it climbs the hill with no problems without losing any speed. I always stay below max torque when climbing in case the situation calls for more power I can kick it down a gear and get more torque out of it. I see using the same technique on this engine and it should climb any interstate hill. It wasn't that long ago that if we had an engine that made 475ft/lbs of torque we were excited and figured we could tow anything anywhere, that was a lot of power. I think we have gotten spoiled by having engines that are overkill and it has been caused by the manufacturers trying to outdo each other and not an actual need for engines that strong.

    I found this torque curve for the new engine. Even though the max torque is at 4000RPM it builds torque fast at low RPMs and holds it there. It looks like by 1500RPM it has over 400 ft/lbs torque. With the 4.30 gears it is rated at 20,200lbs for the 4x4 and 20,600lbs for the 4x2 fifth wheel towing and the 6.7L diesel is rated at 22,000lbs for the 4x4 and 22,400 for the 4x2. From what I can figure out on Ford's horrible payload charts it looks like it will have over 500lbs more payload than the same truck with a diesel. Now I am going to have to rethink the gas vs diesel issue because the increased payload on a SRW 4x4 with that torque curve is very tempting. I can get the trailer my wife wants without having to go to DRW. Its only money if I choose wrong

    Dale
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2020SuperDutyPickupHPTorqueCurve.jpg  
    Dale & Tammy
    Retired U. S Army and Retired Helicopter Pilot
    2021 Ford F-350, 6.7L Diesel, 4x4, Lariat Ultimate
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  10. #60
    Long Hauler
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russ Olin View Post
    Yes, I can answer this one. I have 2 nephews who live in NW Colo. in cowboy country. They are both younger & starting families. Both had to have big high powered high dollar diesel pickups. In cowboy country you gotta keep up with the Jones' whether you can afford it or not. One bought a Dodge dually a couple of years old. Nice looking truck, only good thing he did was get a extended warranty. Because they got to find out how good it was. Motor shelled out, $12000 repair bill. Then gets rid of it & buys another gotta mechanic Cummins. Some people don't learn fast. The other nephew buys a 08 F-250 Super Duty low miles. 6.4 binder diesel. I also had this same engine. I drove it 50,000 miles & got rid of it as soon as the warranty was off. Got my current 2012 gas V8. Anyway my nephew drives this 4-5 years, gets around 90,000 miles on it. Injector fails, piston gone engine gone. No warranty. He sells a skid steer he owns so he can have a $12,000 replacement engine installed. By the time he is done $15,000, on a truck with basically 90,000 miles. A gas engine would run 3 times that many miles. So, he doesn't want to have the same thing happen again & drives it to Texas & trades it in for a brand new F-350 power stroke. LMAO. Money to burn baby. But, he learned the hard way. Now he is going to trade every 5 years to stay under the warranty. If he would have bought the 08 truck with a gas engine he would still be driving around today and have $20,000 in his back pocket. Also worked with a guy on a const. site in Durango just a few years back, had a Dodge dually Cummins motor went out. Burnt piston. He was coming over Wolf Creek on a Sunday night at midnight it burnt another piston and there he sat on top of Wolf Creek. Hauled it to Durango, the garage refused to fix it again. He had it hauled to Farmington NM where they put the 3rd Cummings rebuilt in his truck. That's what happens when you get their patched up junk rebuilt engines. And that happens to all brands. In the dirt const. industry we live by a saying " if is not a CAT diesel its definitely a dog." I hope that the new 6.7 power strokes are a lot better, But with all the new technology I don't buy it. Not for long term year after year use. If I was going to get a diesel today I'd go with the 6. L binder diesel with the bullet proofing. That way you can run with the open exhaust with out all the other BS. I hear that they are awesome once they have been bullet proofed. After market can always do things right. That the factory cant. Same things with transmissions in all makes. They barely adequate. If you loose a transmission go after market as they will bullet proof any trans mission out there & improve it by 50%. by the way living around the 4 corners & mountains where we do there are 1000's of RV being pulled through here weekly seen plenty of them along the road waiting for the tow truck or service. They certainly not bullet proof. Hope that you enjoyed my post, I just tell it like it is.
    A late model 6.7 long block through Ford Parts has a MSRP of $7000, and it can be bought online for $6000. Do you think the nephew might have been taken advantage of if his engine cost $15,000? It's just not that big of a job to lift a SuperDuty cab--maybe a 1 hour job--for any shop with an overhead lift.

    And by the way, Caterpillar no longer makes any truck engines of any size. They bowed out when the EPA regulations caused them so much trouble. They're putting their engine and engineering into off road equipment.

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