New Propane Furnace - Air quality doesn't seem right (Causing health symptoms)

[skier8674]

Hello Community,

I'm looking to see if anyone has had similar symptoms from their propane furnace in their RV (we have a Reflection 31MB Fifth). I am trying to establish some points of reference from those who have used their furnaces for years at all elevations including high elevation.

I am not sure what is going on with the furnace but in our opinion it definitely is putting off some sort of bad fumes that is causing anyone in the RV to wake-up and stay awake (5 people have experienced the described). We experience headaches, bad air quality (like a thickness in the air) and symptoms of the common cold and fatigue from it going into the next morning/day. Our Propane leak alarm is functioning properly and has not detected any issues. I have purchased a secondary (digital) CO detector and laid it on the floor to see if there were any signs of CO build up happening (always shows ZERO particles). Both of these are great news, but we are fairly confident this is not how all of these units operate.

Besides the fumes/odor that is making everyone feel sick/waking up the furnace does seem to operate. It responds to the thermostat and does heat.

We purchased our Reflection in Denver, CO (5200') and have done the following in regard to our furnace:

- Burnout period of 1 hour with all windows open
- Trip #1 (1 Night at 5800') - Symptoms as described above
- Trip #2 (2 Nights at 7000') - Night 1 same symptoms, Night 2 had electrical hookup and ran electric heater instead (felt great next day)
- Trip #3 (2 Nights at 10000') - Night 1 (1hr usage) immediately same sensations so cut usage off. No electrical hookups so bundled up and let the unit drop to the low 50's for the rest of night 1 and night 2. Ran the generators a bit in the AM to use electric heater to bring some warmth.

The only two things that make sense to me are:
1. The furnace is not adjusted properly for higher elevation. However, I struggle with this as that should result in un-combusted propane which I assume would set off the propane alarm (which it hasn't detected anything).
2. The furnace is just a lemon.

I definitely plan on taking it back into the dealer, but would appreciate any input in advance. Thanks for your time!

[JCR GD]

It seems several years ago I read of someone having similar issues. If I remember right it ended up being something in/on/against the unit that was getting hot and melting or just getting hot.

The combustion gasses should all be external unless there is a leak. The heated air is internal the two should never mix.

[J&J___]

I talked to a Reflection 150 owner the other day that said they had a water line that was close to the furnace and had scalding hot eater when they ran the furnace. I agree with JDR GD check for something close to furnace or furnace exhaust.

[kevinpo]

Hello,
I'm in agreement with the above. There are many plastics that when heated beyond their temperature range will produce symptoms as you describe without setting off any electronic alarms. Nylon, acetal, and styrene will produce toxic or irritating fumes if overheated and are commonly use in RV's.

Regards,
Kevin

[D2Reid]

The only thought I can add is the possibility of construction debris on the heating element inside the furnace. As mentioned above the propane exhaust is vented outside.

[skier8674]

Thanks for the thoughts! I believe you all have me headed in the right direction.

I have a planned 2 day overhaul on the electrical system mid week. I will add a full inspection of the furnace and the ducts to see if there is any foreign debris or plastic being used that could be causing the symptoms. I will take pics along the way if I run into anything that looks suspect for future reference.

Stay tuned... thoughts from others are welcome too.

[gbkims]

Below my furnace where the duct attaches was some wood particles embedded in some melted hardened stuff, adhesive? Scraped it off as was able in cramped space.

[skier8674]

Well not much to report back at this time as far as the root cause.

The furnace is/was clean with no foreign debris or objects in or around the furnace. When I say in the furnace I have taken it apart (I’m that serious about solving this). I have run the furnace outside the RV to see if I could replicate the symptoms by bypassing the ducting system (cheap flexible vents). State of California has some of their famous disclaimers on the packaging of those style flexible vents. I am going to setup the furnace in my garage (hooked up to a propane tank of course) and try out a couple of scenarios over a few days.
1. Furnace with no vents
2. Furnace with flexible vents (some from inside my RV. Specifically the room I sleep in).
3. Furnace with sheet metal style vents (not practical for use in RV, but trying to find some different data points).

My thought process now is...
1. The flexible vent is getting hot and releasing something. The two smaller vents terminate out of the top of the unit and then make a 180 turn.
2. The black paint on the exterior of the heating chamber is off gassing something when hot. There was some minor areas of paint flaking up. I sanded those areas down. Not sure if this coating is cosmetic or more likely rust prevention.
3. Leak between combustion chamber and heated air.

I have some pics, but will post once I have more definitive findings or thoughts for historical purposes.

Have a great week!

[JCR GD]

Looking forward to hearing your findings! Hopefully something definitive!

[Russ Olin]

Just a thought, is the RV fairly new?
We purchased 2500 RL back in January. It was cold out, put it in the yard here at home. Turned on the furnace & warmed it up so we could check it out & put in out camping things.
Trailer being brand new had the "new smell". Which isn't good. After being in the RV 2-3 hours with the furnace on both the wife & I had those symptoms that you described. We would get out & go back in the next day. Same thing again. When the weather permitted we left the furnace off & opened all the windows & doors during the day to air out all those bad fluorocarbons or what ever they are called. Don't think that we could have stayed in the RV that first few weeks we had it until the RV was aired out thoroughly. On our last 2 camping trips we ran the furnace at night absolutely no problems at all.
Maybe your RV just needs a really good "airing out". Hope that this helps. Good luck.
Oh & by the way the furnace ran fine @ 9500 feet the last camping trip.