Surprise! Imagine 2670mk Hitch Weight is 1000 lbs!

[sande005]

Your tongue weights empty seem to be between 843 and 899 (I assume that is the difference in the scales used). So in terms of percent 899/7400=12% (or 11.3% if we use the lighter number).

Howson's math getting to the 680 number is the two hitched up truck number minus the unhitched truck numbers, giving him 680.

So it appears that you did the total weigh with the WDH fully tightened up. It not only transfers TW to both axels of the tow vehicle, but also back to the trailer axels.
A real purist would weight the trailer unhitched completely from the tow. For most of us, getting the combined weight while hitched but with NO weight distribution set would be close enough. And then do the separate TW measurement. Which is what most RVer's use to determine how close/far they are from the correct percent. (Back to the scale you go..been there, done that myself several times as I learned about and fought my 2670MK TW problem).

I would tend to believe your 843 or ~11.3% result. It may get a bit better when you refine the numbers on a reweigh. For mine, even with full water, I couldn't get it above 11.5%, and had sway at speeds above 50 mph. Sometimes bad enough to set off the trucks "anti-sway" functions, which didn't really help that much.

The acid test is to go on a longer test trip. Of course be careful - watch carefully for any sign of wagging - seeing the back corner more in one mirror, and then more in the other mirror. If you start seeing it at all, you need more TW. Be ready to use the brake controller to apply the trailer brakes only if it doesn't subside with reduced speed. Hitting your truck brakes when you have sway could be really bad....
Note that true sway is not the same at all as "truck suck" when a big rig passes you and you feel everything move sideways toward it. More TW will help reduce that effect, also - but not eliminate it. "Truck suck" could, though, be the force that initiates a true sway event.

With that trailer, it is safe to say one can never load it up with too much tongue weight. But it can be very prone to too little.

[Buckaroo]

Your tongue weights empty seem to be between 843 and 899 (I assume that is the difference in the scales used). So in terms of percent 899/7400=12% (or 11.3% if we use the lighter number).

Howson's math getting to the 680 number is the two hitched up truck number minus the unhitched truck numbers, giving him 680.

So it appears that you did the total weigh with the WDH fully tightened up. It not only transfers TW to both axels of the tow vehicle, but also back to the trailer axels.
A real purist would weight the trailer unhitched completely from the tow. For most of us, getting the combined weight while hitched but with NO weight distribution set would be close enough. And then do the separate TW measurement. Which is what most RVer's use to determine how close/far they are from the correct percent. (Back to the scale you go..been there, done that myself several times as I learned about and fought my 2670MK TW problem).

I would tend to believe your 843 or ~11.3% result. It may get a bit better when you refine the numbers on a reweigh. For mine, even with full water, I couldn't get it above 11.5%, and had sway at speeds above 50 mph. Sometimes bad enough to set off the trucks "anti-sway" functions, which didn't really help that much.

The acid test is to go on a longer test trip. Of course be careful - watch carefully for any sign of wagging - seeing the back corner more in one mirror, and then more in the other mirror. If you start seeing it at all, you need more TW. Be ready to use the brake controller to apply the trailer brakes only if it doesn't subside with reduced speed. Hitting your truck brakes when you have sway could be really bad....
Note that true sway is not the same at all as "truck suck" when a big rig passes you and you feel everything move sideways toward it. More TW will help reduce that effect, also - but not eliminate it. "Truck suck" could, though, be the force that initiates a true sway event.

With that trailer, it is safe to say one can never load it up with too much tongue weight. But it can be very prone to too little.

Good information & discussion....the devil is in the details. So you are suggesting I reweigh the truck/trailer rig without the WD bars on the hitch. I did indeed weigh it originally with them in place. Based on your post, I would expect to see more weight on the rear axle of the truck, less on the front axle of the truck and less on the axles of the trailer.....right? Total weight obviously the same. So the hitch weight in this situation would be truck front +rear axle hitched (w/o bars) less truck only front + rear axle? Call this A. You would expect this to be in the 840 lb range given my static measurements. Total trailer weight would then be this 840 lb (or whatever it actually is) plus the trailer axle only weight w/o bars. Call this B. My hitch weight % would be A/B x 100. Do I have that right? You expect that this will yield a larger % than the other calculation method and is the appropriate comparison to the 10% "standard". What say you, Howard?

Buckaroo

[Buckaroo]

Listen to @howson - he's wise. In fact, I'm taking my brand new 2670MK to the scales this weekend, now that DW has done some outfitting. I need to get a TW scale.... hmmm.

Anyway - behind your axles you have only your kitchen GW tank and the water heater, apart from the fridges, pantry and desk knee hole.
@classic2step - we'll see you around!

I didn't buy the TW scale, I used the bathroom scale method with two different scales....have attached info. Would be interested in how your CAT scale info turns out. It does sound like there is a question about whether you want to take those measurements with the hitch WD bars on or off......maybe you need to do it both ways. Reweigh is $2.

Buckaroo

[howson]

What say you, Howard?

Honestly? Based on this thread I think a 2670MK has little need for a weight distribution hitch. Sway control--absolutely--but based on your numbers it seems like there's no requirement to remove weight off the tongue. To get the truck back level I'd use air bags on the truck or something along those lines.

I won't debate how the math is done to determine the percentage of tongue weight--it's of little importance. There's plenty of resources online. (I'm not saying my way is right--just the way I was taught and understand the process. I'm open to being proven wrong.) Sande005 is spot-on with the "feel" being the most important factor. You can crunch numbers all day long and go to the CAT scale a hundred times, but it won't matter a bit if you're not comfortable driving the setup. All of the number crunching should get you close, but then adjust as required to get it right for YOU.

Finally, I'll add two more items to your list to check since you seem very conscious about having a safe setup. (A good thing!) What tires are on your truck and what are their load limitations? What is the hitch rating on your truck, have you looked?

Your setup is a system with the weakest link being the limiting factor. Truck tires, tire inflation pressures (truck and trailer), receiver rating, WDH (and/or sway control), truck and trailer's GVWR, truck's CGVWR, and finally a tongue weight consistent with the total weight of the trailer are all items an owner should verify are within the manufacturer's specifications. Oh--and having the whole setup somewhat level is nice, too. Once you figure it all out you're all set. Getting to that point and learning all this stuff is like taking a college class...

[Buckaroo]

Honestly? Based on this thread I think a 2670MK has little need for a weight distribution hitch. Sway control--absolutely--but based on your numbers it seems like there's no requirement to remove weight off the tongue. To get the truck back level I'd use air bags on the truck or something along those lines.

I won't debate how the math is done to determine the percentage of tongue weight--it's of little importance. There's plenty of resources online. (I'm not saying my way is right--just the way I was taught and understand the process. I'm open to being proven wrong.) Sande005 is spot-on with the "feel" being the most important factor. You can crunch numbers all day long and go to the CAT scale a hundred times, but it won't matter a bit if you're not comfortable driving the setup. All of the number crunching should get you close, but then adjust as required to get it right for YOU.

Finally, I'll add two more items to your list to check since you seem very conscious about having a safe setup. (A good thing!) What tires are on your truck and what are their load limitations? What is the hitch rating on your truck, have you looked?

Your setup is a system with the weakest link being the limiting factor. Truck tires, tire inflation pressures (truck and trailer), receiver rating, WDH (and/or sway control), truck and trailer's GVWR, truck's CGVWR, and finally a tongue weight consistent with the total weight of the trailer are all items an owner should verify are within the manufacturer's specifications. Oh--and having the whole setup somewhat level is nice, too. Once you figure it all out you're all set. Getting to that point and learning all this stuff like taking a college class...

Good questions on the hitch and the tires.....I have looked at them and thought them adequate.....the OEM hitch is Class IV (1,000/10,000) and the tires are Michelin P275/65R18 LTX/AT2 which are rated at 2601 lbs max at 51psi. These, I believe, are "D" rated, not "E" rated tires. The tire placard on the drivers door says to run them at 30 psi front, 33 psi rear. I decided to air them up to 35 psi front, 40 psi for towing (maybe should go higher?). I think all this fits with the 9,100 lbs towing capacity. Any thoughts appreciated.

I will dig into the references you sent along before - have not done so yet and apologize. I am an old retired engineer who enjoys tinkering, works on cars for a hobby and am new to this travel trailer stuff so that's why I was trying to fully understand the calculations. Just a curious guy trying to learn from others with experience. Lots of good information on the internet but some effort required to sort the wheat from the chaff.

Buckaroo

[sande005]

Good questions on the hitch and the tires.....I have looked at them and thought them adequate.....the OEM hitch is Class IV (1,000/10,000) and the tires are Michelin P275/65R18 LTX/AT2 which are rated at 2601 lbs max at 51psi. These, I believe, are "D" rated, not "E" rated tires. The tire placard on the drivers door says to run them at 30 psi front, 33 psi rear. I decided to air them up to 35 psi front, 40 psi for towing (maybe should go higher?). I think all this fits with the 9,100 lbs towing capacity. Any thoughts appreciated.

I will dig into the references you sent along before - have not done so yet and apologize. I am an old retired engineer who enjoys tinkering, works on cars for a hobby and am new to this travel trailer stuff so that's why I was trying to fully understand the calculations. Just a curious guy trying to learn from others with experience. Lots of good information on the internet but some effort required to sort the wheat from the chaff.

Buckaroo

Yep, I totally agree with howson - the 10-15% rule of thumb is just that, a very rough guide. In my case, I found that anything under 12% (the way I calculate it) was bad. There are a bunch of youtube videos showing the effect of TW on sway by several engineering schools. Sway occurs only because of too low a tongue weight. But, it can be initiated by a variety of side forces - truck suck, wind, uneven pavement, change in direction of the TV, etc., etc. Much of the effort for trailers is put into reducing or dampening those from occurring. That's kind of putting a band-aid on the root problem. Anti-sway bars, stiffer tires, trailer suspensions and all the rest may very well help reduce those side forces - and they GREATLY help with other driveability problems ("truck suck", porpoising, and the like). But without enough TW, the potential is still there. Maybe you've dampened it enough to not be apparent in usual conditions, but.... So be careful about cures for one problem being advocated for the other.

Anyway, on mine - rather than go down the road of trying different hitches, loading all my gold bars into the pass through, or the like - I just went with the Pro-Pride hitch. By itself it adds a couple hundred pounds to the tongue, which is what I really needed. And then it's design eliminates the single pivot point that a trailer rotates around when swaying. So the trailer essentially becomes locked to the TV (but can still negotiate turns!).

Of course, that all takes a toll on the truck's available payload (and your wallet!)....which leads us into the "how much truck" rabbit hole, that I won't go down.....

[Billman]

Well, you have plenty of good advice, so I won't add to it. Just giving you my experience. I have the same trailer, only 2019. I bought the Sherline scale so I could play the same games at home. Full water tank, half empty, empty, etc. Pass through full, empty, etc. I saw similar hitch weights as you stated. My hitch weight plus stuff in the truck bed puts me over the truck's payload capacity if I load up like I want to. So I scaled everything back. Minimal stuff in the bed. I took all the extra gear out of the pass through that I didn't really need (extra chairs, duplicates of tools,..). Then I won't carry more than a 1/3 tank of water. Also went though interior.

Now this is contrary to why we bought a larger camper. I want to carry all that stuff! But I'm giving it up until we can buy that 3/4 ton next year. With just my wife and I, we have plenty of empty cabinets anyway on the shorter trips. My Ram 1500 pulls the 2670 just fine. The equalizer hitch takes care of the sway except. But I definitely feel like I need more truck under me. And I haven't really mountain tested. I tell people that with the old little Jayco before that the truck was in control and I barely felt I was pulling anything. But with the 2670 I feel like the trailer is in control of the truck.

[phuber9458]

I weighed my 2020 2670 loaded to go camping except for food and clothing. All tanks dry, and my scale showed 900lbs with level trailer. Now I'm wondering if I should go to the 1200lb bars instead of the 1000lb bars I have now.

[Dreamin' Dreamers]

I weighed my 2020 2670 loaded to go camping except for food and clothing. All tanks dry, and my scale showed 900lbs with level trailer. Now I'm wondering if I should go to the 1200lb bars instead of the 1000lb bars I have now.

Or.......get a hitch that more closely matches your TV capabilities rather than your trailer. I replaced the 14/14 EQ with a 2/20k BLU Ox and it helped. Also get the Shurline for accurate tongue weight. And I found the MORE tongue weight I add the better it tows-water makes an easy ballast to play with. I just hope when I get a BMW GS into the truck bed it doesn’t screw up all my hard work!

[tim-o-w4yn]

Just bought a 2020 2670mk. The literature says the hitch weight is 642lbs. I received VIN specific paperwork when I bought it that says it's 726lbs (extra 84 lbs?). I now have full propane tanks and added some basics (maybe 300 lbs total - half in the front storage area) and checked the hitch weight....1000 lbs. Was thinking I might get close to that number fully loaded but not at this point. I guess I need to load the back of the trailer under the desk with firewood? Where are the tanks with respect to the axles? Can I load some water in the back gray tank to lighten up the nose? What about the rest of the tanks? What's behind the axle that I can load?

Buckaroo

Mine with all tanks full and a fair amount in front storage area came out 870lbs. They set my WDH with that tongue weight, I found the trailer had too much sway unless I towed with at least the fresh water tank full. Tows even better with gray and black tanks 1/2 full!
Tim