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  1. #11
    Seasoned Camper phonemannn's Avatar
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    I am done here..........Cannot educate someone that knows everything...My self included, but not in this instance....
    2017 F350 Lariat, Dual rear wheels
    2017 GD 311BHS

  2. #12
    Big Traveler CWSWine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Blue View Post
    I'm a little confused about the whole payload discussions... IMHO... Payload is simply a function of tires and springs... and therefore a balance between a comfortable ride and being able to tow heavy stuff... Again IMHO the idea a dodge 2500 cummins can't tow a 230RL is ridiculous... adding a camper package ( overload springs ) should be mandatory for all 2500's that are actually used as a pickup..... But as my wife often points out I'm stuck in the 1990's, ... Norm
    I currently own a Class A with Cummins 6.7 360 HP and 800 Torque and Motorhome has GCWR of 46,700 lbs so I guess the 900 HP and 1000 torque engine should pull a GCWR somewhere in the 50,000 to 60,000 pounds.

    The lady at the DMV can not recertify your F250 from a Class 2 truck to Class 3 truck. In my state, I. can register an F150 for 80,000 pounds but that doesn't make it safe and only means I pay more for my registration.



    Here is what NETA says about GVWR.


    "By Bob Raybuck
Director of Technical Services
NTEA
    Often, GVWR and gross vehicle weight (GVW) are thought to be the same, but they are not. A truck’s GVWR is the maximum weight rating established by the chassis manufacturer. GVW is the total weight of the truck and payload at a point in time.

    There’s a common misconception that a truck’s GVWR is determined by adding gross axle weight ratings (GAWRs) together for all axles. Although this was a common way of calculating GVWR many years ago, it’s no longer an accurate method. The chassis manufacturer task of establishing a vehicle GVWR is much more difficult today due to advancement of safety system standards and how vehicles meet these requirements. This is why many trucks have a GVWR much lower than the combined axle ratings. It is not uncommon for a truck with a GVWR of 19,500 pounds to have a front axle rated at 7,500 pounds and a rear axle rated at 14,700 pounds. Safety standards that apply to braking, vehicle stability, and chassis manufacturer internal standards for durability, dynamic stability and handling can restrict GVWR even though the sum of the axle ratings exceeds 22,000 pounds. In this instance, the OEM set the GVWR at 19,500 pounds based on test results and vehicle dynamic performance to ensure a safe, reliable truck.

    By Bob Raybuck 
Director of Technical Services
NTEA “

    https://drivewyze.com/blog/trucking-...g-work-trucks/

    https://www.ntea.com/NTEA/Member_ben...rk_trucks.aspx
    Dennis & Ellie
    Current 2017 Newmar Ventana Class A & 1994 Airstream Excella Classic Limited Project
    Sold - 310-GK-R Delivered 28 Oct 2016
    2016 GMC Denali 1 Ton Diesel SRW Payload 3727LBS B&W Hitch

  3. #13
    Big Traveler CWSWine's Avatar
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    You should be able to pull an RV up to your GCWR of the truck but there is couple of requirements you must meet to safely do this and they are laid out in the J2807 standard. What the J2807 takes into account is braking, stabilization, and accelerations of the truck. Ford, Ram and GM has agreed to use the 15% pin weight during all testing so that would be the first requirement Here is what it says in the J2807 that must be meet.

    SAE J2807 States that exceeding the GVWR is a reason to fail

    "5.4 GVWR/Rear GAWR and Tongue Weight/Kingpin Weight Considerations

    The tow vehicle shall be able to accommodate appropriate trailer tongue and/or kingpin weight to attain a particular TWR without exceeding Rear GAWR and/or GVWR. Required minimum conventional trailer tongue weight shall be 10% of TWR and required minimum fifth wheel or gooseneck trailer kingpin weight shall be 15% of TWR."

    TWR = Trailer Weight Rating

    There is other requirements that must meet also like drivers weight and ETC

    The reason Ford was such a late adopter of the j2807 was frame flex didn't meet the standard.

    http://fifthwheelst.com/documents/to...ds-2016-02.pdf
    Last edited by CWSWine; 11-15-2019 at 08:37 PM.
    Dennis & Ellie
    Current 2017 Newmar Ventana Class A & 1994 Airstream Excella Classic Limited Project
    Sold - 310-GK-R Delivered 28 Oct 2016
    2016 GMC Denali 1 Ton Diesel SRW Payload 3727LBS B&W Hitch

  4. #14
    Site Team xrated's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phonemannn View Post
    I am done here..........Cannot educate someone that knows everything...My self included, but not in this instance....
    If you were referring to me with that comment ^^^^, I wasn't asking you to educate me.....I have a fairly good understanding of towing dynamics and how the numbers work. If it wasn't directed at me, ignore this post.
    2016 F350 CrewCab Dually
    2018 Momentum 394M...Heavily Modded!
    2023 Suzuki GSX-S1000 GT+
    Excessive Payload is a Wonderful Thing

    "If it ain't fast....It ain't Fun"

  5. #15
    Seasoned Camper Big Blue's Avatar
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    Well I enjoyed "all" the replies and have done a bit of reading since yesterday.... What wasn't clear to me from the video, was that when you add a Cummins & 4wd to a Ram 2500 the weight of the truck is significantly increased... and payload decreased... also Ram specs only included 3.73 gears, 410 gears are an option and significantly increased payload on their gas trucks.... It seems a Ram 2500 diesel 2wd could easily tow a 230RL... unless you have an oversize family of 6 or choose to load the bed room with gold bullion. lol... Also I think maybe it's possible that Dodge might not build them like they did in 1996.... because if it wasn't for the rear view mirrors I'd forget the trailer was there...almost..
    2019 230RL Reflection ..... 1996 Dodge 2500 Cummins still pulling just as hard as the day I brought her home November 1995...3.6 Onan. 2 battleborns 300 watts solar, 1500 watt aims inverter....(Convictions are a far greater foe of truth than lies) {Nietztche}

  6. #16
    Left The Driveway
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Blue View Post
    I'm a little confused about the whole payload discussions... IMHO... Payload is simply a function of tires and springs... and therefore a balance between a comfortable ride and being able to tow heavy stuff...
    .....ahhhh not exactly so. The frame, axles, brakes, differential are examples of important components that factor into the GVWR (cargo capacity = GVWR-actual truck weight).

  7. #17
    Seasoned Camper Big Blue's Avatar
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    psdxoh, Fair bit of reading between the quote and your reply... I should have been more clear that I was referring to a 2019 Ram 2500 with a Cummins... Factory Spec allow that truck to tow a travel trailer over twice the weight of my Reflection 230RL.... with the same brakes, rear end, frame and transmission.... The difference of course is the 5th wheels pin weight....riding on the rear springs..... If I really wanted that truck ( I don't ) I'd look into heavier springs.....
    2019 230RL Reflection ..... 1996 Dodge 2500 Cummins still pulling just as hard as the day I brought her home November 1995...3.6 Onan. 2 battleborns 300 watts solar, 1500 watt aims inverter....(Convictions are a far greater foe of truth than lies) {Nietztche}

  8. #18
    Fireside Member
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    The payload number on the little yellow sticker is very important if you are ever involved in an accident and an attorney gets involved, which they will. They are looking at every angle for a huge law suit. These law suits are becoming very popular because it's a slam dunk for the attorney. If your involved in an accident-your fault or not-and over payload---good luck. I spoke with my insurance company and was told the lawsuit would be my responsibility because I am the one that overloaded the vehicle.

  9. #19
    Rolling Along backtrack2015's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Blue View Post
    Well I enjoyed "all" the replies and have done a bit of reading since yesterday.... What wasn't clear to me from the video, was that when you add a Cummins & 4wd to a Ram 2500 the weight of the truck is significantly increased... and payload decreased... also Ram specs only included 3.73 gears, 410 gears are an option and significantly increased payload on their gas trucks.... It seems a Ram 2500 diesel 2wd could easily tow a 230RL... unless you have an oversize family of 6 or choose to load the bed room with gold bullion. lol... Also I think maybe it's possible that Dodge might not build them like they did in 1996.... because if it wasn't for the rear view mirrors I'd forget the trailer was there...almost..
    This is OT but my father had a 12-valve Cummins with a 6MT back in the 90s. He had it uprated by a Cummins shop to the B-series specs of the day. It put 660 ft-lbs to the ground and the boost catapulted the truck forward. We never got tired of punching it and riding the wave of torque from 1400 RPM. While I know my Ford's frame and axles are higher capacity, I've never driven a truck that felt stronger than that old Cummins. I guess the higher curb-weight, slush-box, and torque management have dulled the experience a bit.
    Last edited by backtrack2015; 11-20-2019 at 08:35 PM.
    2017 F-350 CCSB 6.7L
    2021 Micro Minnie 2100BH
    previously - Reflection 28BH, Intech Pursue

  10. #20
    Seasoned Camper Big Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by backtrack2015 View Post
    This is OT but my father had a 12-valve Cummins with a 6MT back in the 90s. He had it uprated by a Cummins shop to the B-series specs of the day. It put 660 ft-lbs to the ground and the boost catapulted the truck forward. We never got tired of punching it and riding the wave of torque from 1400 RPM. While I know my Ford's frame and axles are higher capacity, I've never driven a truck that felt stronger than that old Cummins. I guess the higher curb-weight, slush-box, and torque management have dulled the experience a bit.
    I've owned two 12 valves.. the 1996 I bought new... we're getting old together! The other one was in a Scotty Highlander Motorhome. C-class built on a 1995 Dodge 3500... The handling was so poor that I took it to Henderson lineup in Grants Pass... The 1995 Scotty's only had one overload spring latter years had as many as six...Added a couple of springs, torsion bar, & sway bar... What a change! handled like an empty truck.... well worth the 3,000.... Henderson Lineup specializes in RV suspensions.. mostly Class-A and Diesel pushers, some of their owners were paying 10,000 or more for repairs.... Sold the Scotty a year ago and returned to 5th wheeling, the original reason for buying the 1996 Dodge.....
    2019 230RL Reflection ..... 1996 Dodge 2500 Cummins still pulling just as hard as the day I brought her home November 1995...3.6 Onan. 2 battleborns 300 watts solar, 1500 watt aims inverter....(Convictions are a far greater foe of truth than lies) {Nietztche}

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