Truck silliness and F250 diesel weights

[Bamaman]

My older F250 2x4 crew cab short bed diesel weighs about 6,800 lbs. Our city dump has a brand new electronic scale I often have to go across.

[Overtaxed]

OK, I was thinking "sway" was what you said, I've had that happen a few times (but never on a gooseneck). Honestly, the worst sway ever was towing my father's very light boat behind an Expedition in wind, it wasn't that bad, but you could sure feel it pushing you around (and, of course, no brakes/controllers to straighten it out). So, given that I now know what we're talking about, the duallies are better at controlling it because more tire area in the back? They still get sway, it's just that they won't break the tires loose? I've never had sway that bad, it's uncomfortable and needs to be addressed quickly, but actually knocking the back end of the vehicle out, that's never happened to me (thankfully)!

Here's the thing that kind of boggles me a little on this "sticker thing". The problem with the 5er is the pin weight, not the weight of the rig. But, if I moved to a tag, I could tow this thing legally from there because so much less weight would be transferred to the truck. How on earth does that make any sense? Can't tow it the safest way to tow (right over the axles), but, sure, if you hang it off a ball behind the rig, you're good to go?! Someone explain that logical process to me (and yes, I know what it is, the payload rating, but still, how is a 15K tag (legal) safer to tow with a SRW than a 15K 5er (not legal)?!).

LOL at your hay story. I once had a boss who; when not doing our "real job" would figure out farm work for us to do. Which, one time, included me driving (at about 20 years old) a hay trailer about 30 miles to deliver. With about a 1985 F150. Tag along. If that trailer weighed an ounce under 15K, I'd be shocked, I'm guessing more in the 20K range. It was.. An experience, that's for sure!

The biggest unknown for me is the "sail area" on these things, I've never pulled anything so physically big before. It's funny, wife and I were on the way home from a trip to look at RVs and, on the highway, we were trying to watch the tow configs of people passing us. Made me feel like I wouldn't be the dumbest guy on the road, monster tags behind old 150's; triple axles behind 250's. Plenty of "stupid towing" to keep us entertained, although, sadly, nobody had a gooseneck hooked up to their tag along ball (yes, they will hook up, I've seen pictures and heard of someone trying to do it).

I'm not going to be the dumbest person out there, that's for sure. But that's also completely unhelpful if something does happen. I'm gonna give it a shot, I feel confident that the truck will do it/hold together. And while a dualie would be nice, this truck is brand new, and, even worse, where we live, registering a dualie is stupid expensive (because, you guessed it, the stupid yellow sticker). I was browsing around, and it appears that the dealers here even sell F350's with a 9.9K/10K derate.

[backtrack2015]

The sway with a travel trailer is amplified by the fact that the coupling is 4-5 feet behind the truck's rear axle. That gives the trailer significant leverage on the truck if the trailer decides to push left or right. The fifth-wheel and gooseneck connections are right over the rear axle (or slightly in front), so the trailer has almost no leverage on the truck. You have a big sail area, so the whole truck-trailer combo can get pushed around, but the ability of the trailer to cause left-right increasing oscillations is minimal if properly loaded. I believe the duallies are more stable as they have a wider footprint and more tires on the pavement. It just requires more force to cause that rear axle to move off its intended path. You also get the benefit of another tire on each side if one blows out or suddenly loses pressure.

[huntr70]

2019 F250 diesel, King Ranch, 6.5' bed,

Welcome to the world of the 250/2500 series and having all the toys on the truck.

King Ranch, Denali, and Laramie all have lower carrying capacities due to all the gadgets on them.

[Overtaxed]

The sway with a travel trailer is amplified by the fact that the coupling is 4-5 feet behind the truck's rear axle. That gives the trailer significant leverage on the truck if the trailer decides to push left or right. The fifth-wheel and gooseneck connections are right over the rear axle (or slightly in front), so the trailer has almost no leverage on the truck. You have a big sail area, so the whole truck-trailer combo can get pushed around, but the ability of the trailer to cause left-right increasing oscillations is minimal if properly loaded. I believe the duallies are more stable as they have a wider footprint and more tires on the pavement. It just requires more force to cause that rear axle to move off its intended path. You also get the benefit of another tire on each side if one blows out or suddenly loses pressure.

Yeah, kind of what I thought. Doesn't make much/any sense though if safety (for you and others) is the driver to suggest someone with a truck like mine get a 40' TT (legal by the stickers) vs the same model in a 5er (not legal by the stickers). The 5er (illegal) is going to be safer than the travel trailer (legal) in all instances I would think, except, of course, from the DOT and lawyers if something were to happen.

[backtrack2015]

Yeah, kind of what I thought. Doesn't make much/any sense though if safety (for you and others) is the driver to suggest someone with a truck like mine get a 40' TT (legal by the stickers) vs the same model in a 5er (not legal by the stickers). The 5er (illegal) is going to be safer than the travel trailer (legal) in all instances I would think, except, of course, from the DOT and lawyers if something were to happen.

I agree with your basic frustrations with derated stickers. The folks setting the vehicle registration fees/taxes, if punitive for 10K plus, are pushing folks into an uncomfortable situation. You either pay big money for the registration or buy an identical but derated truck to avoid the registration fees. You're obviously left with some theoretical legal exposure in that second case. I've said repeatedly here that if I was on the jury, I would vote against any gross negligence or equivalent charges if you could prove the truck was mechanically identical to a higher-rated truck and that you had not exceeded that higher rating. Unfortunately it is very difficult to argue you're safe without ultimately falling back on the OEM-blessed values.

[D2Reid]

... are (duallies) better at controlling it because more tire area in the back? They still get sway, it's just that they won't break the tires loose?

That is my belief, but I am not an engineer. Something about friction coeficient.

The biggest unknown for me is the "sail area" on these things

Crosswind is the term. Of course angle into the wind plays a factor, 90 degrees at 35+ mph is a problem, but you rarely get that. Monitoring the tire pressure monitoring system (TPMS) I have learned that the leeward side gets more abuse than the windward side. The PSI gets to be 2-4 psi higher. But I have never come close to getting tipped over by wind alone. I have had a quartering tail wind effect the steering, but slowing down pretty much cures any problems. I have had head winds so strong that my fuel mileage dropped to 3mpg. That'll mess with your fuel plan. Running I70/80 across the midwest you will observe the tractor trailer rigs leaning, 5th wheels also.

So while it is a factor, it's not a show stopper. I just believe the dually is more stable in those conditions.

Plenty of "stupid towing" to keep us entertained...I'm not going to be the dumbest person out there, that's for sure.

Back in my boating days I used to enjoy watching people launch their boats at the ramp. As a campground host I enjoy watching people parking their RV's.

where we live, registering a dualie is stupid expensive (because, you guessed it, the stupid yellow sticker).

South Dakota has a non-resident vehicle registration program. It was designed to accommodate the huge distances in that part of the county, they allow folks with addresses in other state to register their vehicle in SD. The agricultural environment is much more dually friendly than the urban areas.

[Calnca]

Real world issues always have made me do things on the excess side........pulling first boat (26' I/O) with F250, felt like boat and trailer kept wanting to go straight on highway speed curves. Livable, but still scary at times. Went to 32' I/O weighing a lot more and the rear of the truck was frequently feeling like it was being pushed around by the trailer....upgraded to a F350 DRW and that ended all the rear end feeling like it was being shoved around. So when it came time for the Momentum, a DRW was a no brainer.



Remember an ounce of prevention, is worth a pound of cure.......

[ramcneal]

One point in favor of a DRW that I've not seen mentioned is the added safety of a flat. Previously I had a 5th wheel, Keystone Challenger 34', that I towed with a Dodge 2500 to which I added air bags to make it level. It started and stopped fine, but it crossed my mind more than once while towing in the mountains with curves what would happen if I had a rear wheel blowout on the truck. That's a lot of weight with nothing to support it on that side. My current 3500 with dually's gives me a peace of mind.

[CWSWine]

The Cummins 6.7 in my motor home is rated to 360 HP and 800 Torque. My coach is rated to 42,70i0 pounds of GCWR and when loaded I normally fall between 37,000 and 38,000 pounds and pulls just fine. The modern truck engine with 900 HP and 1000 pounds of torque should be able to get close to 50,000 pounds.

People keep using axle ratings for how much they can tow but the GVWR isn’t based off axles or tires but off the frame ratings. I spent some time with a friend that works for Ford looking at frames and found for 2019 there is 11 different part numbers that we found. One for gas, diesel, long bed, short bed and one for snow plow option but to our surprize we also found frames with different GVWR also form 10,000 pound to 11,500 that had different part numbers. When you order a frame you put in the part number from the book and selects the correct frame for your truck using the VIN number.

You can read this link to see that GVWR has nothing to do with the axle ratings.
https://www.ntea.com/NTEA/Member_ben...rk_trucks.aspx

More important to me after now talking to now three different accidents attorneys they all knew that 50% of RVs are over at least one manufacture ratings. All three already knew that most F250 towing 5ers are over ratings and using the VINs of the truck and RV can easily prove that in court. Unlike a few years ago this is common knowledge amount accident attorneys.

According to all three attorneys, insurance will pay up front, al least in my state. All three quoted cases that judge made awards to the insurance companies in the amount of claims and legal cost to be paid by the driver. They also assured me that they can’t take you home but can attach to the equity if you ever sell they get the equity in your home. That alone made me decided that ratings do matter.

I would suggest that anyone towing spend that 125 dollars for an accent attorney to find out your liabilities of being over ratings. Also, spend some time with your insurance agent researching an umbrella policy for at least million maybe two. If you get in an accident towing 20,000 plus pounds you can create a lot damage and injuries that will exceed you insurance limits