new 2020 tow vehicle & reflection 303 w 15" wheels

**duke13** · 12-28-2019, 02:55 PM

Hello I am thinking of moving to a new tow vehicle and am not sure my 2016 GD Reflection 303 will be level. The 2016 Reflection 303 has 15" tires. . I now tow with a 2002 GMC Duramax (16" tires tires ) and everything is level when hooked to my truck .. Ground to top of bed on my 2002 GMC is 53" . The new 2020 Ford and Chevy are at least 3" taller. Is anyone towing a 303 Reflection with 15" tires and is the unit level ?? Any thoughts are appreciated. Thank You !

**HighFive** · 12-29-2019, 03:29 PM

I think you have good reason to be concerned. Grand Design went with the 16 inch wheels with higher profile tires I believe in 2018. They also added a 2" square tube welded to the bottom of the frame and attached the spring hangers to the square tube. These changes added about 3 inches to the height.

I have a 2019 303RLS and a 2019 F350 truck and both sit perfectly level with 7" of bed rail clearance. If my 303 was 3 inches lower I would definitely be nose high.

**ShadyCamper** · 12-29-2019, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by duke13

Hello I am thinking of moving to a new tow vehicle and am not sure my 2016 GD Reflection 303 will be level. The 2016 Reflection 303 has 15" tires. . I now tow with a 2002 GMC Duramax (16" tires tires ) and everything is level when hooked to my truck .. Ground to top of bed on my 2002 GMC is 53" . The new 2020 Ford and Chevy are at least 3" taller. Is anyone towing a 303 Reflection with 15" tires and is the unit level ?? Any thoughts are appreciated. Thank You !

My setup is different, but may still be of some help.

TV is a 2020 GMC 3500 Denali. Pulling a Reflection 230RL which has 15” wheels. Have a B&W companion set in the lowest setting.

Trailer looks level, but when measured from the pavement to the bottom of the frame we are about 3” nose high. We have 6.5 to 7” of clearance between the bottom of the camper and the bed rails.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**duke13** · 12-29-2019, 09:43 PM

Thanks guys, sounds like I should go to 16" wheels before moving to a new truck.. My trailer has the 2" tubing welded to the frame. So I should be ok. Any recommendations for tires?

Thanks for the input. ShadyCamper and High Five

**HighFive** · 12-30-2019, 06:46 AM

I'm surprised your 2016 303 has the 2" square tubing welded to the frame. I had read somewhere that GD added this in newer models to increase the trailer height for the newer trucks but maybe not.

I believe your 303 has the ST225/75R15 tires which are 28.3" in diameter and the 16" wheels on mine come with the ST235/80R16 tires which are 30.8" in diameter. This is a 2 1/2" difference in diameter which is 1 1/4" difference in height.

I understand the 2020 Ford super duty's are about an inch lower in height then the 2017 thru 2019. You should consider getting the new truck (if a Ford) with 18" wheels instead of the optional 20's (standard on some trims). The 20's with the larger diameter tires will add 1" in height (2" diameter). This will put you close to where you need to be. I have the 18 on mine. This is for a Ford. I don't know anything about the GM's or Rams

I'm going to change out the Westlake trailer tires on mine to the Goodyear Endurance tires in the next couple of weeks. You can do a search on the Endurance but they are getting good reviews.

**duke13** · 12-30-2019, 10:33 AM

Thanks for the info. Looks like if I go to 16" wheels ( + 1 1/4 , ST235/80R16 tires ) with my 2" welded to the frame I would be where I need to be. (3 1/4 ) . This would put my trailer where yours is. This is some great info. I have to give this some thought. I really appreciate the info. Thanks Highfive !
I do like the good year endurance tires might make that change also. Do you need the B&W slider? I have an older slider ,manual but have never had to use it. My bed is 6.5 " I think. Might need to check my number here. Anyhow do you have any movement in the hitch when pulling on a straight stretch of road? OOps gotta run for now.. Thanks again , Duke

**Canyonlight** · 12-30-2019, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by HighFive

Grand Design went with the 16 inch wheels with higher profile tires I believe in 2018. They also added a 2" square tube welded to the bottom of the frame and attached the spring hangers to the square tube. These changes added about 3 inches to the height.

GDRV added the 2" tube (to at least the 303s) in early 2015. Attached is a picture of the earliest version I saw from our local GDRV dealer in 4/2015. This was done to level out the fiver when towing as mentioned by others and to provide clearance for the 16" tires/wheels which was an option at that time.

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At the top of our rear of box/tail gate on our 2012 Silverado it measures 58". At the axle it measures 57" to the top of the box. We drop just about 2 1/2- 3" or so, at the axle when the fiver is loaded with all the normal use items. We did tow nose high with the 15" tires/wheels.

As posted in a few treads previously, we had the 2" tubes added and had 16" tires/wheels installed along with 6K axles at the GDRV factory service center in May, 2018. When we hooked up at the factory service center to come home we were nearly perfectly level as can be seen in this picture.

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The Westlake 15" "D" rated tires on our 303 from the factory when new in 10/2013 had an outside diameter when inflated at 28.3". The Westlake 235/80R16" have an outside diameter of 30.8" for a difference of 2.5" divided by 2 to increase the RV height at 1 1/4" Adding this to the 2" tube our 303 is now 3 1/4" higher and tows level as mentioned.

Dan

**HighFive** · 12-30-2019, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by duke13

Thanks for the info. Looks like if I go to 16" wheels ( + 1 1/4 , ST235/80R16 tires ) with my 2" welded to the frame I would be where I need to be. (3 1/4 ) . This would put my trailer where yours is. This is some great info. I have to give this some thought. I really appreciate the info. Thanks Highfive !
I do like the good year endurance tires might make that change also. Do you need the B&W slider? I have an older slider ,manual but have never had to use it. My bed is 6.5 " I think. Might need to check my number here. Anyhow do you have any movement in the hitch when pulling on a straight stretch of road? OOps gotta run for now.. Thanks again , Duke

I can't say for sure that I really "need" the slider hitch but I do have to back into my driveway from a narrow subdivision road. I would at least be close to needing it but I have never tried it without sliding it back first and won't. I have to get out of the truck anyway to move 2 cars out of my driveway so I just slide it back before backing the trailer in. I slide it back at the campground too when checking in even with a pull through site. I really like that it gives me 12" more of clearance between the tailgate (down) and the trailer so I can duck under the overhang and walk side to side when unhitching and hitching at the campground and at home for adjusting the front jacks, placing jack pads, and chocking the tires. Just more convenient then walking around the truck or trailer.

Another advantage with the hitch in the rearward position is the trailer reacts more quickly to steering inputs as the hitch pivot point is now 12" back from the rear axle. A little more like a TT. I wouldn't get either of these advantages with an auto slider. I have yet to need it at other times but that can always happen so I personally wouldn't be without a slider with a short bed truck. When in either position it is locked tight and no movement.

**scott d** · 12-30-2019, 02:45 PM

I had a 303 (2017) with 15 inch tires it pull level with our 2017 Ford F-350 DRW. I believe when they when to 16 inch tires they took off the correct a track. That added a few inches to the height. When I look at newer ones they were not any taller.

**WilDieken** · 01-12-2020, 07:57 AM

Hello. I have a similar issue in that I could use a little more height on my 303 to be perfectly level. I am currently looking at one or two upgrades that should address my height issue and at the same time improve the suspension system on my 303. First upgrade is to install the Morryde cre3000 or sre4000. As a side benefit this upgrade will rise your unit by about one inch. The second upgrade is the Lippert Correct Track system which as another potential benefit would rise the 303 by about two inches. As I said earlier, I am still in the research phase but I like the fact that there may be solutions that increase the height of my 303 and at the same time improve the Suspension System.