So confused

**GeoffnCheri** · 01-23-2020, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by phonemannn

In an RV, At least in America, After an accident involving same, The FIRST thing police, and attorneys look at is........DRUM ROLL......Out of adjustment or inop electric brakes. Ask me how I know....

Sir, not an attack and respectively and with your invitation I will ask "How do you know?" In my law enforcement 35 plus year career which includes being trained and working as an accident investigator, advanced AI and traffic chief we are seeking the primary cause and contributing circumstances, 1st harmful event etc of any accident. While bad brakes may be a contributing factor based on the circumstances of the crash, absent other other overriding information, if braking of the RV was not suspected to be a direct or contributing factor or the cause of the crash, it is doubtful it would even be mentioned or looked at. The majority of the accidents primarily have consistent contributing factors.. driver inattention, speed too fast for conditions or driver impairment. It is much easier to determine vehicle speed relative to conditions compared to the effectiveness of the brakes prior to the accident. My opinion is just that, an opinion and may not be reflective of your experience, however it is based on 35 plus years of policing.

I will not speak to what an attorney will pursue in a civil litigation. I have too much self respect and no experience pursuing civil litigation which may or may not have merit. I have however been deposed multiple times based on my investigation and testified to same.

Respectfully

**fez111** · 01-23-2020, 07:42 PM

Just to follow up... No, we have not been to actual scales. The air bags solve the squatting problem. The dually kit solved the sway and the maxxed out rear tire loads. It feels very solid going down the freeway and can climb steep grades at 45 Mph and 2600 Rpm. I guess what matters is not so much the hard and fast numbers but how well and safely it gets us where we are going. Like I mentioned, we have had all of the known issues with the later 6.0 diesels. Ultimately we had to replace the engine because of a cracked head the sent parts through a cylinder. The term "bulletproof" is used a lot. With the mods I had Asheville Engines incorporate we may be there. www.ashevilleengine.com. All they do is Ford diesels and the V-10. I do not feel that our engine problems were due to our Solitude. It was more like with the miles we already had on the truck the problems were due based on the history of the 6.0. Two summer vacation trips totaling almost 1000 miles and another 1000 miles from Michigan to Florida were completely "uneventful". WooHoo. Motor on...

**GeoffnCheri** · 01-23-2020, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by fez111

Just to follow up... No, we have not been to actual scales.

Fez, I would encourage you to make a trip to the scales sans trailer and again when you are hooked up. For us is provided the actual knowledge of what our truck weighed and what we weighed hooked up. It provided me information on what I know compared to what I thought. It helps us when we load our rig to determine where and how we wish to load the TV and trailer.

Enjoy your RV. We also looked at the potential of turning an F-250 in to a DRW

**phonemannn** · 01-24-2020, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by GeoffnCheri

Sir, not an attack and respectively and with your invitation I will ask "How do you know?" In my law enforcement 35 plus year career which includes being trained and working as an accident investigator, advanced AI and traffic chief we are seeking the primary cause and contributing circumstances, 1st harmful event etc of any accident. While bad brakes may be a contributing factor based on the circumstances of the crash, absent other other overriding information, if braking of the RV was not suspected to be a direct or contributing factor or the cause of the crash, it is doubtful it would even be mentioned or looked at. The majority of the accidents primarily have consistent contributing factors.. driver inattention, speed too fast for conditions or driver impairment. It is much easier to determine vehicle speed relative to conditions compared to the effectiveness of the brakes prior to the accident. My opinion is just that, an opinion and may not be reflective of your experience, however it is based on 35 plus years of policing.

I will not speak to what an attorney will pursue in a civil litigation. I have too much self respect and no experience pursuing civil litigation which may or may not have merit. I have however been deposed multiple times based on my investigation and testified to same.

Respectfully

I happen to be a personal injury attorney. I practice in So Cal, where there are lots of rear end collisions, and the Number one thing my investigators look at in an RV collision, trailer brakes.
It goes from there. If the brakes are not functioning as designed, the vehicle should not be on the road. Can you imagine driving your truck with no or defective brakes, get into an accident, and not have the brakes come into the discussion? Same for any vehicle on the road.
This is my opinion, Electric brakes are adequate if functioning as designed, but there are to many things that can be wrong with the electric brake design. And driver might not even know there is a big problem till it is to late.

**Overtaxed** · 01-24-2020, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by phonemannn

I practice in So Cal, where there are lots of rear end collisions, and the Number one thing my investigators look at in an RV collision, trailer brakes.

Why? If your client is the rear ended, what difference does it make if the trailer or truck brakes are working right? Whoever rear ended you, except in very, very rare situations is automatically at fault. Why bother looking at things like brakes and GVWR when who's "at fault" is already determined by the nature of the accident?

**phonemannn** · 01-24-2020, 10:29 AM

Getting rear ended by the RV with def brakes. Because it changes it from an accident to a potential crime. It is illegal to operate a vehicle on the road with defective brakes. Makes a difference on judgement .

**Overtaxed** · 01-24-2020, 10:40 AM

Getting rear ended by the RV with def brakes. Because it changes it from an accident to a potential crime. It is illegal to operate a vehicle on the road with defective brakes. Makes a difference on judgement .

Yeah, but you'd have to prove knowledge that the brakes were defective, right? Does it just make the judgement higher, or does it change the nature entirely? Seems a difficult standard to overcome if you have to prove knowledge of the brakes having issue; yes, I check my brakes regularly when driving, but, if they do fail, and I don't check before the accident, I'd have committed a crime that I had no knowledge of at all. Not saying that's impossible, we've (sadly) long ago moved away from the standard of having to know you were committing a crime to hold someone accountable, but, still, that's a terrifying thought. I'd be much more worried if someone pulled out in front of me and I hit them, that would seem a good place to say "if you had good brakes, you would have been able to stop". I'd say, "If you hadn't cut me off, I wouldn't need great brakes".

Do they have to be 100% failed (like disconnected) or would weak brakes (worn too far) also be used in this way? How far is "too far"? Good lord, this is stuff I really didn't want to know. Just add this to my reasons to have a large umbrella liability policy!

**GeoffnCheri** · 01-24-2020, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by phonemannn

I happen to be a personal injury attorney. I practice in So Cal, where there are lots of rear end collisions, and the Number one thing my investigators look at in an RV collision, trailer brakes.
It goes from there. If the brakes are not functioning as designed, the vehicle should not be on the road. Can you imagine driving your truck with no or defective brakes, get into an accident, and not have the brakes come into the discussion? Same for any vehicle on the road.
This is my opinion, Electric brakes are adequate if functioning as designed, but there are to many things that can be wrong with the electric brake design. And driver might not even know there is a big problem till it is to late.

Sir, I appreciate your reply and I recognize that a profession such as yours often receives an unfair reputation the same as my profession does. My reply was to clarify what I considered blanket statements which I believe are based on passion of your profession but not fact to wit "The FIRST thing police, and attorneys look at is........DRUM ROLL......Out of adjustment or inop electric brakes." or "electric brakes are illegal."

My personal and professional opinion is personal injury attorneys are an essential need in our society. They provide a civil mechanism of recovery of loss and damages for those who have caused injury or damages where negligence occurs however, absent malice, knowledge or intent, defective brakes would not likely result in a criminal charge.

In following your line of thought that an examination of the brakes determined something went wrong as a result of and I will paraphrase "defective by design and without the drivers knowledge" I would opine the driver would not be criminally or civilly liable and would also have standing in litigation against the brake manufacture.

My intention was not for this thread (which has gone off the rails in multiple directions) to be a keyboard litigation about causes of accidents or trial strategies. I appreciate our thread discussion which has maintained a professional and respectful communication without name calling or disrespecting one another.

I do appreciate your profession and I have seen many lives devastated by negligent vehicle operation and that does include knowingly operating a vehicle in an unsafe condition. I will continue to respectfully refrain from making blanket statements about someones profession and I will respectfully continue to clarify misstatements of fact which are made about mine.

And Phonemann, I truly apologize but I really thought you likely worked for the damn phone company based on your username.

Respect

**Roll With The Changes** · 01-24-2020, 07:22 PM

Wow! This thread has gone WAY off the rails...

What started as a question of what is the "good" or "right" or "smart" thing to do has devolved into "who is going to sue whom" or "who is criminally neglegent"?

Is that really what we have all come to?

What about truly understanding your equipment and it's limitations? I work in the aerospace industry and I can tell you that every single time I take off it is above the maximum certified weight. That does not make me unsafe or negligent. It makes me competitive in an industry in which we have to push the limits. I can chose to do that recklessly or in a controlled way that understands and mitigates the risks where possible.

I'm not saying that we should pull a 15k pound fifth wheel with an F150 but that also doesn't mean we need a Freightliner to pull it either. Electric trailer brakes are all weak (unless it's an axle that is way oversized).

Drive it like it's heavy. Exercise good judgement. Ask questions here, and LEARN. And please! Stop talking about who will sue whom in a legal system that has absolutely no connection to the real world.

**phonemannn** · 01-24-2020, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by Roll With The Changes

Wow! This thread has gone WAY off the rails...

What started as a question of what is the "good" or "right" or "smart" thing to do has devolved into "who is going to sue whom" or "who is criminally neglegent"?

Is that really what we have all come to?

What about truly understanding your equipment and it's limitations? I work in the aerospace industry and I can tell you that every single time I take off it is above the maximum certified weight. That does not make me unsafe or negligent. It makes me competitive in an industry in which we have to push the limits. I can chose to do that recklessly or in a controlled way that understands and mitigates the risks where possible.

I'm not saying that we should pull a 15k pound fifth wheel with an F150 but that also doesn't mean we need a Freightliner to pull it either. Electric trailer brakes are all weak (unless it's an axle that is way oversized).

Drive it like it's heavy. Exercise good judgement. Ask questions here, and LEARN. And please! Stop talking about who will sue whom in a legal system that has absolutely no connection to the real world.

Agree. Thanks