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Thread: Windows

  1. #1
    Seasoned Camper chunker's Avatar
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    Windows

    I am likely to end up ordering a 351M in order to get that I want in a vehicle. One of my potential desires is dual pane windows. I have dual pane windows through out the motorhome, except the windshield of course, and like them. They reduce condensation, reduce outside noise some, and have "some" thermal insulation value. But I am also aware that my Itasca motorhome is built much more sturdy and better insulated than most trailers on the market. That said there are concerns about the wisdom and value of the dual pane in a trailer.

    Weight?? Does anyone know how much weight dual pane windows adds to the build? Every add subtracts from CC. A couple years ago in my discussions with GD about a Solitude, I couldn't get a definitive answer to that question from GD but one rep looked at the weight sticker of one with the dp windows compared to one without and it was a few hundred pounds. BUT there were other differences in the trailers so there was no way to know what the windows alone added. Since the CC of a 351M hovers around 2500# losing a "few hundred pounds" could be a bad thing.

    Efficiency?? I expect answers all over the board on this one. Condensation depends on where you are and how many hot breathers inside. Heat transfer the same. With my Raptor the windows had minimal tint and when I was in Tucson, October but still hot, the windows were unbearable. I ended up getting foil backed bubble wrap for the windows so that the air conditioners had a chance at keeping the space comfortable and I didn't literally bake sitting in the chair in the slide next to big windows.

    Noise?? Guess that also depends on where you are and is subjective but open to opinions on that.

    Windows are an expensive add and to get them generally requires ordering. I can modify/remove other common unwanted items like the patio rails that are commonly ordered. I do want a queen bed, not RV king, and that's important to me. But windows are very expensive to add to a build and even more expensive to retrofit.
    2020 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW
    Solitude 320X sold
    2020 Raptor 356
    2012 Primetime Crusader 355BHQ (GF's)

  2. #2
    Seasoned Camper Drolaw's Avatar
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    I just bought a Solitude 344GK (pick up soon) and wish it came with dual pane (DP) windows. I can't provide any weight feedback on weight; however, I was in a friends Solitude that has DP and two things I immediately noticed: 1. Outside noise was greatly dampened and 2. The heat was not a factor. I also noticed the Solitude AC units are quieter than the ones in my 315RLTS.

    I had to use the bubble foil you mentioned to get the same AC effect in my 315RLTS - I live in South/Central Texas and summers here are brutal.

    If there is a way to replace my windows to DP I will do it. Or, if there is a magic solution to make the single pane windows more efficient I'll try that first. Some people tried the 3M plastic wrap but I'm skeptical based on good/bad feedback The noise is not a big issue for me as we typical stay in parks that are quiet after 10. It's the weather that causes me anguish (cold and heat).

    If you end up getting DP please report back on your experience.

    Good luck.
    Jim & Kate
    2019 Ford F350 CC 6.7 Diesel DRW
    2020 Solitude 344GK
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    2017 Ford F250 6.7 Diesel (Sold - already miss her)
    2018 GD Reflection 315RLTS (Sold)

  3. #3
    Big Traveler Txfivver's Avatar
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    My experience with my Solitude, also in South Texas, is that they really may not be needed. I spent 4 days in it last Fathers day and it was over 100 degrees each day and the 2 15K A/C's kept it at a comfortable 72 degrees. It was in full sun also after about 10am each day. The units cycled on and off and did not have to run constantly either. Last November I spent 7 nights in it in the Woodlands and it was 40's daytime and below freezing every night. The furnance kept it at the same 72 degrees easily. Double plane windows would be nice to have for sure but with the insulation in the Solitudes ( and Momentums I assume) they may not be really needed. Just my free .02c
    2019 Solitude 375RES Onan 5500 Splendide W/D Samsung res. fridge
    2020 Ford F450 Platinum dually 6.7L 4:30 gears
    B&W Companion for Ford puck system 20K lbs
    Jeff

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    Site Team Second Chance's Avatar
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    Our current rig does not have them and, as full-timers, we really wish it did. We don't always chase the mild temperatures and have to deal with condensation and put Reflectix in the windows when it gets really cold. According to Grand Design, dual pane windows would have added about 300 lbs. to this trailer.

    Our new rig (due off the line today!) will have dual pane windows. The Solitude 310 has more glass area than our Reflection 337, so the weight difference will be greater - but the increased glass area makes dual pane windows even more important IMHO. We're really looking forward to having them. If you use the search function (top right), you'll find many threads on the forum on this topic.

    Rob
    U.S. Army Retired
    2012 F350 DRW CC LB Lariat PS 6.7
    2020 Solitude 310GK-R, MORryde IS, disc brakes,
    Sailun LRG tires, solar, DP windows, W/D
    (Previously in a Reflection 337RLS)
    Full time since 08/2015

  5. #5
    Seasoned Camper MooManChu's Avatar
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    FWIW,

    We have a 320G and it did not come with dual pane windows. Our dealer rep said they do not order DP's on their trailers and would order one for us if it was a deal breaker. They're claim was the added weight and cost and mostly, the issues with seals failing/window fog they see across all brands they sell including GD. He said the road wear is tough on them. Now, bear in mind we're in NE Ohio and do not have to contend with the triple digit heat as often as down south during "normal" camping season. I do admit, I'd like to extend my camping season as much as possible and yes, they do a great job maintaining a barrier to the the outside. Given where we live, we opted for the trailer they had in stock without them. I'd love to hear from anyone who has a 3+ seasons on their trailer, and of course, has put big miles on the trailer (like 5K+)

  6. #6
    Long Hauler geotex1's Avatar
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    Consider installation of quality ceramic film to single pane windows. Will give you better performance in several aspects compared to the dual pane windows available. Will be a different story if the RV world ever catches up to the technology of residential and commercial dual pane windows...
    Rob & Nikki + Cloverfield
    2020 Grand Design Solitude S-Class 3350RL
    2015 RAM 3500 Longhorn Laramie Crew Cab, Long Bed, 4x4 Dually Cummins/AISIN

    Mountains of Pennsylvania

  7. #7
    Site Team Second Chance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geotex1 View Post
    Consider installation of quality ceramic film to single pane windows. Will give you better performance in several aspects compared to the dual pane windows available. Will be a different story if the RV world ever catches up to the technology of residential and commercial dual pane windows...
    We have the top-of-the-line 3M crystalline film on all the single pane glass in our 337. It helps in the summer but does nothing in the winter for temps nor condensation.

    Rob
    U.S. Army Retired
    2012 F350 DRW CC LB Lariat PS 6.7
    2020 Solitude 310GK-R, MORryde IS, disc brakes,
    Sailun LRG tires, solar, DP windows, W/D
    (Previously in a Reflection 337RLS)
    Full time since 08/2015

  8. #8
    Long Hauler geotex1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Second Chance View Post
    We have the top-of-the-line 3M crystalline film on all the single pane glass in our 337. It helps in the summer but does nothing in the winter for temps nor condensation.

    Rob
    It's not the film. The film works. It's the extreme thermal break of the window frame. Like every other maker, GD routes them oversized and adds nothing to re-insulate the gap. Leaves you with pulling them apart and using low expansion, non-hardening foam to fill and reinstalling the inner frame, or you're looking at shrink filming beyond the frame. The dual pane suffer this same issue frame fitment issue. Moisture is a full time management item when living long stretches in any camper.
    Rob & Nikki + Cloverfield
    2020 Grand Design Solitude S-Class 3350RL
    2015 RAM 3500 Longhorn Laramie Crew Cab, Long Bed, 4x4 Dually Cummins/AISIN

    Mountains of Pennsylvania

  9. #9
    Seasoned Camper chunker's Avatar
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    I appreciate the comments. Yes I recall previous threads on this forum and a couple others I follow. That 300# figure is what I recall from either discussions with Tom Holt or another rep in reference to a 310 GK and dual pane. The Momentum 351 doesn't have quite as many windows but I'm not sure I want to give up that much CC. Generally speaking I tend to "drift north" out of the deep south in the summer so temperature issues won't be that much an issue. Since cooler months around here are generally nice I tend to do more local stuff. I still have the rolled up reflective foil from the old Raptor days and since it doesn't weigh much, may throw it in.
    2020 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW
    Solitude 320X sold
    2020 Raptor 356
    2012 Primetime Crusader 355BHQ (GF's)

  10. #10
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    chunker, I was in the same pickle...

    We had them on out last toy hauler which was a 42' Heartland Cyclone. I would agree with the other posters on that the R-rating is minimal or modest... maybe it helped, maybe not (in our case). But, it was a dramatic difference in sound reduction when being inside of other RV next to us without duel-pane windows (in our case). This is especially true when we are next to a freeway or a concert. We lived at most 2 weeks at a time in our Cyclone during all seasons and never had any issues with mold or condensation, even in the snow (in our case).

    As for the weight, our last weight rating did not appear to change with them installed much; I recall it was about a 350 pound difference.. compared with others without them. But, with double the glass, if weight is a factor, it's something to consider. If you have 350 pounds of glass with single pane on your RV, now you might now have 700. I guess that's in line with what others have said too.

    The cost on or 399TH was about $2100 (retail). We negotiated about 30% off or retail on the whole rig, so I see the cost a reasonable.

    We ordered our 2020 399TH with duel pane windows because I see the cost and benefits outweighing the cons. But, we are also towing with a 2020 Ford F450, so for us, weight is not as significant of a factor either.

    Just my 2 cents. Good luck

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