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  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranchertx View Post
    How did you figure out which line was return and which was supply?
    They actually are SLIGHTLY different on my rig. The return line is slightly bumpier on mine. Look at them on the genny, see if you can notice a slight difference. I did, and then I picked that difference up at the back too. I also had a coupling handy in case I cut the wrong one.

  2. #72
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    Well, just wanted to provide a final update on this issue. It's fixed. I just finished ~600 miles this weekend, genny running the entire time we drove, over awful roads, uphill, downhill. Not a single glitch/stall/issue. I'm calling this one "done" and moving on to the next thing, hopefully this will help someone having a similar problem and, if there are any questions, please ask, happy to assist. Short version for anyone finding this 8 pages in, if your genny stalls while driving, it may be that you need to install another fuel pump in the rear of rig, the pump on the stock genny doesn't have much lift (in fact, very little) and if you get into a situation where, for example, the genny is uphill of the tank, you can very easily starve it for fuel. A 30 dollar fuel pump, 2 hours and about 5 bucks of wire will fix this issue for you. I suspect this isn't at all isolated to the 351M, it's probably any toyhauler with the fuel tank in the rear of the rig, genny in the front, running on gasoline that would/could exhibit this problem. Stock genny fuel pumps aren't made to "pull" fuel very far/uphill/with significant resistance, just add a pump right next to the tank to "push" the fuel and the problem is likely to go away (and this would also help with vapor lock, which wasn't my problem, but could be a problem for some, if you subject anything to a vacuum, which is what you're doing pulling fuel, even with a pump that has strong suction, you can turn the fuel (or any liquid) into a vapor because it will boil at a much lower temperature as the vacuum increases).

    Anyway, glad to call this issue closed, at least for myself!

  3. #73
    Long Hauler offtohavasu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overtaxed View Post
    Well, just wanted to provide a final update on this issue. It's fixed. I just finished ~600 miles this weekend, genny running the entire time we drove, over awful roads, uphill, downhill. Not a single glitch/stall/issue. I'm calling this one "done" and moving on to the next thing, hopefully this will help someone having a similar problem and, if there are any questions, please ask, happy to assist. Short version for anyone finding this 8 pages in, if your genny stalls while driving, it may be that you need to install another fuel pump in the rear of rig, the pump on the stock genny doesn't have much lift (in fact, very little) and if you get into a situation where, for example, the genny is uphill of the tank, you can very easily starve it for fuel. A 30 dollar fuel pump, 2 hours and about 5 bucks of wire will fix this issue for you. I suspect this isn't at all isolated to the 351M, it's probably any toyhauler with the fuel tank in the rear of the rig, genny in the front, running on gasoline that would/could exhibit this problem. Stock genny fuel pumps aren't made to "pull" fuel very far/uphill/with significant resistance, just add a pump right next to the tank to "push" the fuel and the problem is likely to go away (and this would also help with vapor lock, which wasn't my problem, but could be a problem for some, if you subject anything to a vacuum, which is what you're doing pulling fuel, even with a pump that has strong suction, you can turn the fuel (or any liquid) into a vapor because it will boil at a much lower temperature as the vacuum increases).

    Anyway, glad to call this issue closed, at least for myself!
    Thanks for the follow-up. Good information!
    Curtis, Christine, Cole, and Charlotte

    2007 Chevrolet Silverado Duramax LBZ, CCLB
    2020 Momentum 351M

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by offtohavasu View Post
    Thanks for the follow-up. Good information!
    Well.. Apparently not "fixed" entirely. I've driven about 3000 miles, genny running the whole time, and we're camping this weekend and it started to fail again. Same symptom, hit a big bump, genny dies out. <ugh>

    Not sure where to look this time. I'm going to check to see how my oil level looks, maybe it's that. But the symptoms are exactly the same as what I was dealing with before, so...

    The only significant thing that's changed is that it was, literally, record setting hot when I was driving the other day. My truck has an ODB2 reader on it, the intake air coming into the engine (of the truck, not the genny) was 130-140 degrees (the sun heating the road and then that heated air coming into the engine). I'm wondering if that has something to do with it.

    I'm just so done with this issue, I need a reliable genny! It's been in twice to the dealer and once to Onan, nobody has fixed anything. Adding the fuel pump obviously had a very significant impact to the issue, so.. What am I looking at here? Just so hot that it's somehow vapor locking even with positive pressure? Something entirely different? Should I do the altitude adjustment when it's that hot? I mean, that adjustment is for "less O2" and air at that temp does have less O2 in each CFM, right?

    So annoyed.. If someone had told me that the genny won't run while driving, I would have forgone it and just dropped an inverter genny in the bed of my truck. Which might be what I wind up having to do anyway to get enough reliability to feel comfortable. But my 5K genset really should be better than a 800 dollar inverter!

  5. #75
    Long Hauler huntindog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overtaxed View Post
    Well.. Apparently not "fixed" entirely. I've driven about 3000 miles, genny running the whole time, and we're camping this weekend and it started to fail again. Same symptom, hit a big bump, genny dies out. <ugh>

    Not sure where to look this time. I'm going to check to see how my oil level looks, maybe it's that. But the symptoms are exactly the same as what I was dealing with before, so...

    The only significant thing that's changed is that it was, literally, record setting hot when I was driving the other day. My truck has an ODB2 reader on it, the intake air coming into the engine (of the truck, not the genny) was 130-140 degrees (the sun heating the road and then that heated air coming into the engine). I'm wondering if that has something to do with it.

    I'm just so done with this issue, I need a reliable genny! It's been in twice to the dealer and once to Onan, nobody has fixed anything. Adding the fuel pump obviously had a very significant impact to the issue, so.. What am I looking at here? Just so hot that it's somehow vapor locking even with positive pressure? Something entirely different? Should I do the altitude adjustment when it's that hot? I mean, that adjustment is for "less O2" and air at that temp does have less O2 in each CFM, right?

    So annoyed.. If someone had told me that the genny won't run while driving, I would have forgone it and just dropped an inverter genny in the bed of my truck. Which might be what I wind up having to do anyway to get enough reliability to feel comfortable. But my 5K genset really should be better than a 800 dollar inverter!
    I have actually installed a Microquiet on my last TT. The onan installation manual (which is excellent) stated that controling the fuel supply pressure when under way is critical. Too little pressure is bad, and so is too much. Both can cause the motor to die. I installed a fuel pressure regulator and set it to Onans specs.
    IIRC I got it at NAPA.
    2021 398M Full Body Paint 8k axles. LRH tires. Disc brakes.
    Two bathrooms, no waiting 155 fresh, 104 black, 104 grey 1860 watts solar.
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    2020 Silverado High Country 3500 dually crewcab Duramax Allison

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overtaxed View Post
    Well.. Apparently not "fixed" entirely. I've driven about 3000 miles, genny running the whole time, and we're camping this weekend and it started to fail again. Same symptom, hit a big bump, genny dies out. <ugh>

    Not sure where to look this time. I'm going to check to see how my oil level looks, maybe it's that. But the symptoms are exactly the same as what I was dealing with before, so...

    The only significant thing that's changed is that it was, literally, record setting hot when I was driving the other day. My truck has an ODB2 reader on it, the intake air coming into the engine (of the truck, not the genny) was 130-140 degrees (the sun heating the road and then that heated air coming into the engine). I'm wondering if that has something to do with it.

    I'm just so done with this issue, I need a reliable genny! It's been in twice to the dealer and once to Onan, nobody has fixed anything. Adding the fuel pump obviously had a very significant impact to the issue, so.. What am I looking at here? Just so hot that it's somehow vapor locking even with positive pressure? Something entirely different? Should I do the altitude adjustment when it's that hot? I mean, that adjustment is for "less O2" and air at that temp does have less O2 in each CFM, right?

    So annoyed.. If someone had told me that the genny won't run while driving, I would have forgone it and just dropped an inverter genny in the bed of my truck. Which might be what I wind up having to do anyway to get enough reliability to feel comfortable. But my 5K genset really should be better than a 800 dollar inverter!
    Does your set up have a return to tank fuel line? At those temperatures it is probably vapor lock and having a return to tank line can help with that, Also the pressure regulator is a good idea.
    Hope this helps in some way.

    Or you can try what my dad did many many years ago with our IH wagon an that was to throw a bag of ice on top of the carb/engine to get us to the next town. We drove a night for the next few days and bought a lot of Ice. No AC in the car either - how do I ever survive.
    2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th wheel with 6K axle upgrade. B&W 25K OEM Companion, Steadyfast system, 2022 F350 SRW 6.7 King Ranch 8' bed, Trailer reverse lights, rear spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, and Solar

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntindog View Post
    I have actually installed a Microquiet on my last TT. The onan installation manual (which is excellent) stated that controling the fuel supply pressure when under way is critical. Too little pressure is bad, and so is too much. Both can cause the motor to die. I installed a fuel pressure regulator and set it to Onans specs.
    IIRC I got it at NAPA.
    Onan doesn't on my genny, spec out fuel pressure FROM the tank, AFAIK. It has a fuel pump right on the genny that; IMHO, is grossly insufficient for the task at hand. There's almost no "head" on the pump on the genset, you start pulling the trailer any grade and you'll easily wind up with the fuel tank feet below the genset and the pump just can't overcome that. My configuration now has 2 pumps, a 4PSI (IIRC) back right next to the tank and the one that's provided/part of the genset. So the 4PSI, additional pump, the idea is to push the fuel up to the other pump so that it can then push it into the carb at whatever pressure is required. And there's no question, it worked to fix the problem. I couldn't make it 5 miles before (running), and it was consistent, I had one hill right near my house that would get it every time. After I installed the pump, I drove 1000's of miles with it running and never had a single stall. It's clear, that "fixed it".

    To the other question, yes, there are 2 lines from the fuel tank to the genny, I'm assuming the other line is a fuel return, but?? It's an EVAP generator, which, I know has something to do with the 2nd line, so I don't know. Is that a fuel return or is it a return for evaporating fuel? I'll defer that to the those who know better, I don't know enough about how the emissions/EVAP stuff works to comment on it. I do agree with you though, a "bypass" sounds like what would work here, instead of having the pump(s) push against a static load and let the fuel waiting to be burned "wait" in the lines, just pump full speed and anything the genny doesn't need, push it back to the tank, right?

    What really surprises me, it seems like I'm the only one with this problem. Do other people not run their gennys underway? I'd think that, if the issue was what it appeared to be (not enough lift on the pump) just about everyone would have this problem running underway, right?

    I'm wondering if maybe I should go after the fuel pump on the genset itself. Either pull it off (and let the pump in the back do all the work) or get a new one. Maybe that's been a big part of the problem, it's failing slowly; add a lot of heat, or maybe just 200 hours of runtime, and it's getting worse and just getting "in the way" of the pump in the back?

    Driving me nuts; nuts I tell you!

  8. #78
    Long Hauler huntindog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overtaxed View Post
    Onan doesn't on my genny, spec out fuel pressure FROM the tank, AFAIK. It has a fuel pump right on the genny that; IMHO, is grossly insufficient for the task at hand. There's almost no "head" on the pump on the genset, you start pulling the trailer any grade and you'll easily wind up with the fuel tank feet below the genset and the pump just can't overcome that. My configuration now has 2 pumps, a 4PSI (IIRC) back right next to the tank and the one that's provided/part of the genset. So the 4PSI, additional pump, the idea is to push the fuel up to the other pump so that it can then push it into the carb at whatever pressure is required. And there's no question, it worked to fix the problem. I couldn't make it 5 miles before (running), and it was consistent, I had one hill right near my house that would get it every time. After I installed the pump, I drove 1000's of miles with it running and never had a single stall. It's clear, that "fixed it".

    To the other question, yes, there are 2 lines from the fuel tank to the genny, I'm assuming the other line is a fuel return, but?? It's an EVAP generator, which, I know has something to do with the 2nd line, so I don't know. Is that a fuel return or is it a return for evaporating fuel? I'll defer that to the those who know better, I don't know enough about how the emissions/EVAP stuff works to comment on it. I do agree with you though, a "bypass" sounds like what would work here, instead of having the pump(s) push against a static load and let the fuel waiting to be burned "wait" in the lines, just pump full speed and anything the genny doesn't need, push it back to the tank, right?

    What really surprises me, it seems like I'm the only one with this problem. Do other people not run their gennys underway? I'd think that, if the issue was what it appeared to be (not enough lift on the pump) just about everyone would have this problem running underway, right?

    I'm wondering if maybe I should go after the fuel pump on the genset itself. Either pull it off (and let the pump in the back do all the work) or get a new one. Maybe that's been a big part of the problem, it's failing slowly; add a lot of heat, or maybe just 200 hours of runtime, and it's getting worse and just getting "in the way" of the pump in the back?

    Driving me nuts; nuts I tell you!

    What generator do you have? I thought all of the GD used the Microquiet series. I will have to dig out my manual, but IIRC, 4 psi is too high. I seem to remember 1.5 psi was spec'ed. I do remember that it was stated as a VERY important parameter. I will look for it later and post it up..

    Have you checked the fuel filters?
    2021 398M Full Body Paint 8k axles. LRH tires. Disc brakes.
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  9. #79
    Long Hauler huntindog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntindog View Post
    What generator do you have? I thought all of the GD used the Microquiet series. I will have to dig out my manual, but IIRC, 4 psi is too high. I seem to remember 1.5 psi was spec'ed. I do remember that it was stated as a VERY important parameter. I will look for it later and post it up..

    Have you checked the fuel filters?
    Here is what my manual said:EXCESSIVE FUEL PRESSURE CAN FLOOD THE GENSET CAUSING A FIRE. GENSET FUEL SUPPLY LINE PRESSURE MUST NOT EXCEED 1-1/2 PSI UNDER ANY CONDITION.
    2021 398M Full Body Paint 8k axles. LRH tires. Disc brakes.
    Two bathrooms, no waiting 155 fresh, 104 black, 104 grey 1860 watts solar.
    800AH BattleBorn Batteries No campgrounds 100% boondocking
    2020 Silverado High Country 3500 dually crewcab Duramax Allison

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntindog View Post
    Here is what my manual said:EXCESSIVE FUEL PRESSURE CAN FLOOD THE GENSET CAUSING A FIRE. GENSET FUEL SUPPLY LINE PRESSURE MUST NOT EXCEED 1-1/2 PSI UNDER ANY CONDITION.
    I have the QG5500. Does the microquiet have a pump on the genny or does it rely on a pump in/near the fuel tank? Mine has a pump right on the unit, which is probably why they don't spec pressure, they are setting it with that pump. Problem is, that pump has very little lift, so it cannot pull from the gas tank 30 ft away on any appreciable slope. Or, at least, that's what the symptoms to date seem to be pointing towards, not sure what to look at now honestly, same symptoms as before, nothing changed (except the ridiculous heat), now it's doing what it did with only 1 pump and dying out when the road gets rough. Onan and GD both pointing at one another has been fun. And the fact that the only way to re-create the issue is by towing the rig, and, of course, that makes it very difficult to troubleshoot for either Onan (well, impossible for them, they don't have a way to pull it) and difficult for my dealer (they don't want to tow anything because of liability).

    Very annoying.

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