Pin weight 398th vs 381m

[LV Naturist]

Just to chime in here, a while back I too was concerned about my pin weight. Not because it was too heavy, but because I thought it might be too light. The numbers below are actual weights from the Cat Scale. We had our normal load for a 4 day camping trip which included full water, 30 gallons of fuel in the tanks (15 for the genny and 15 for the toys), and both quads in the garage. A caveat is we do travel relatively light in that although we do have a well stocked kitchen and enough clothes and stuff for the trip, we are not pack-rats by any stretch of the imagination. This is for the truck and trailer in my signature.

Truck Unhooked:
FA = 4820
RA = 3760
GW = 8,580

Truck Hooked:
FA = 4860
RA = 6840
Trailer Axle = 15,780
GCW = 27,480
PIN = 3,120
Pin % = 16.5%

John

[RVRunners]

Photo of CAT scale ticket for our Reflection 367BHS and truck. Truck GVWR 14000#, truck RAWR 9900#, truck FAWR 5900#, truck Payload 5507#, RV GVWR 14,995#. Truck un hitched weight on CAT scale 9140# (me and truck only). Did have spouse, two teenagers and the dog on the trip shown on the weigh ticket so when I factored them in I estimated the RV pin weight over 3,400#.

[xrated]

Just to chime in here, a while back I too was concerned about my pin weight. Not because it was too heavy, but because I thought it might be too light. The numbers below are actual weights from the Cat Scale. We had our normal load for a 4 day camping trip which included full water, 30 gallons of fuel in the tanks (15 for the genny and 15 for the toys), and both quads in the garage. A caveat is we do travel relatively light in that although we do have a well stocked kitchen and enough clothes and stuff for the trip, we are not pack-rats by any stretch of the imagination. This is for the truck and trailer in my signature.

Truck Unhooked:
FA = 4820
RA = 3760
GW = 8,580

Truck Hooked:
FA = 4860
RA = 6840
Trailer Axle = 15,780
GCW = 27,480
PIN = 3,120
Pin % = 16.5%

John

I would guess that without the quads in the rear and two full tanks of fuel (30 gallons), your pin weight would likely have been at least a couple hundred pounds higher.

[LV Naturist]

I would guess that without the quads in the rear and two full tanks of fuel (30 gallons), your pin weight would likely have been at least a couple hundred pounds higher.

I'm sure it would have been, pretty much a given. That's one of the things with toy haulers, whatever you put in the garage offsets the pin weight by a a significant amount. This goes against the often quoted "rule" of estimating 5th wheel pin weights. Since most, not all, but most people with toy haulers haul toys, it does need to be taken into account (although the GCWR still matters). I'd love to see if there was actually a way to figure out the offset but I'd think there are too many variables. I always load the quads as far forward as possible, and the back half of the garage is empty. This puts more of the weight over (or closer to) the axles, lessening the teeter-totter effect offsetting the pin weight. Someone with a large SXS would load more to the back just because of its size. One of the models the OP was asking about was the 381 and I wanted to give him real numbers for consideration.

John

[BobKilmer]

To answer the OP question, you can safely tow a 381M with a SRW as long as you are mindful of the loading. I am extremely pleased with how mine tows and I have verified with a CAT scale that I am well within all my weight limits and ratings.

I had my 2019 381M weighed and my results were similar to those posted by LV Naturist. With the 381 loaded to 18,700 pounds my pin weight was 3,060 pounds (16.4%). The cargo included about 900 pounds of toys in the garage, 60 gallons of gas, and roughly 50 gallons of water. This pin weight gives me about 400 pounds of margin on the payload and GVWR on my SRW F-350. My axle weights were all well within margin as well.

It has been noted several times that the rules of thumb for adding pin weight don't work well for toyhaulers. When empty, my 381M weighed 15,064 pounds and had a pin weight of 2,650. Adding the 3,636 pounds noted above raised the pin weight 410 pounds. Only 11.3% of the additional weight was transferred to the pin.

Tomorrow when I return from my current trip I will have the 381 weighed in the current configuration which has almost no toys in it (just two ebikes). This will give some insight into how the pin weight varies with weight in the garage.

Edit: I forgot that between the first pin weight and the second one that I added a Lippert Air Ride hitch. This added about 180 pounds directly to the pin weight, so the 410 pounds mentioned above is actually high. The extra trailer weight added only 230 pounds of pin weight, only 6.7%.

[BobKilmer]

I weighed my 381M again with just the ebikes in it. With no water in the RV and my 900+ pounds of ATV/Motorcycles replaced by two ebikes (136 pounds total), my trailer weight went down by 1,588 pounds. However, as expected, my pin weight went up by 320 pounds. I use the Bolt It On system to hold my toys in place, so this places the weight of the toys at the back end of the garage. This results in the highest impact on the pin weight. I am still within all my limits, but as I noted above I need to be mindful of how it is loaded.

[FirstAscent]

I weighed my 381M again with just the ebikes in it. With no water in the RV and my 900+ pounds of ATV/Motorcycles replaced by two ebikes (136 pounds total), my trailer weight went down by 1,588 pounds. However, as expected, my pin weight went up by 320 pounds. I use the Bolt It On system to hold my toys in place, so this places the weight of the toys at the back end of the garage. This results in the highest impact on the pin weight. I am still within all my limits, but as I noted above I need to be mindful of how it is loaded.

Thanks for posting up more real numbers for data Bob. Definitely shows you need to be even more mindful on payload without the toys, which makes sense on a Toy Hauler. I'd bet even without the quads in the back it would offset the pin weight if you put water back in, even though it's not quite as far back as the toys. Obviously wouldn't offset it the same as 900lbs of toys but maybe 50-100lbs? But at least you are still within your limits with your current load.

[Spike32]

When considering what you tow vehicle can handle everyone say take GVWR and multiply by .22 .20 .30 whatever it is and that will be average pin weight.
So my question is both of the trailers have a 20000 lbs GVWR but have different pin weights. So how can I figure if my SRW can handle the 381m?
Thanks.

The only way to get it absolutely correct is to weigh your rig on a CAT scale. That being said, 19% to 22% is a reasonable figure for 5th wheel trailers, and toy haulers would be on the low side of that scale. 1 Ton trucks may be able to handle the pin weight if you have a decent load behind the trailer axles, but it will be real close. If the truck is optioned out (King Ranch or Platinum you will likely be over weight).

[BobKilmer]

FirstAscent, I agree adding the water back in would most likely help the pin weight as well. The next time I have the ATV and motorcycle loaded I will stop at a CAT scale and get a weight with and without the toys loaded to see what the impact is on the pin weight.