New here and looking at the 381M

[FirstAscent]

Hey everyone,

Just stumbled across this forum in my search for info on GD Toy Haulers, specifically the Momentum 381M.

Lots more to research but hoping I’ll be able to soon say I’ve ordered one! Looking forward to getting to know everyone further!

[xrated]

Just make sure you've got enough truck if you go with the 381M.....it needs a Dually to carry the pin weight of a trailer that size....20,000 lbs GVWR.

[SGT ROC]

Welcome, and this is the place to do the research. Lots of good information from very knowledgeable folks. Good luck in your research.

[FirstAscent]

Just make sure you've got enough truck if you go with the 381M.....it needs a Dually to carry the pin weight of a trailer that size....20,000 lbs GVWR.

Thanks for mentioning that! That's one of the main choices I'm trying to make in my decision for the 381M. I have a new Silverado 3500 but it's a SRW, not a dually. However, the payload and towing capacities are quite high on these this year. I have a payload of about 4k and fifth wheel max tow of 21k.

I looked, just online, at some other models as well but I really want the 15' garage to fit an 11' side by side with room for other small toys.

[xrated]

If the 381 is loaded up pretty close to the GVWR, you're going to likely exceed the payload on the truck. Pin weight by itself could be 4000+ lbs. Then you have the hitch, passengers, etc....anything and everything that goes in/on the truck. Check your payload number on the door post to know for sure. 99 times out of 100, you run out of payload capacity before you even get close to towing capacity when towing a 5th wheel CAMPING type trailer.

[FirstAscent]

If the 381 is loaded up pretty close to the GVWR, you're going to likely exceed the payload on the truck. Pin weight by itself could be 4000+ lbs. Then you have the hitch, passengers, etc....anything and everything that goes in/on the truck. Check your payload number on the door post to know for sure. 99 times out of 100, you run out of payload capacity before you even get close to towing capacity when towing a 5th wheel CAMPING type trailer.

Yeah that's what I wasn't sure about. The numbers listed on GD's site (which I realize can change unit to unit) shows a pin weight of 2800 lbs and UVW of 14,700 lbs. With at least 16-1700 lbs in the rear/garage for the toys, that's gotta reduce pin weight at least some.

I don't know how far forward the water tanks are but I believe they are usually up front right? I'd never need more than 100 gallons, so that's 840 lbs, the majority of that would go to the pin weight but not all of it unless it was directly over the axle. What I need to find out is what is an actual number listed on a fully loaded (as far as options from factory go) 381M shows on it's sticker. I'm curious how that compares to the general numbers listed on their website. Do they include the generator and propane tanks? That could add some weight.

Obviously I still have some research to do on the weights. So we'll see what I can verify with hard data.

I know a guy with my exact same truck and just got a new 351M. That is basically my exact setup but the 351 just has a 4' shorter garage (11' vs 15'). Hopefully in a week or so he's going to take is loaded trailer to a CAT scale and I should have some decent real world readings on what I can expect.

[xrated]

Yeah that's what I wasn't sure about. The numbers listed on GD's site (which I realize can change unit to unit) shows a pin weight of 2800 lbs and UVW of 14,700 lbs. With at least 16-1700 lbs in the rear/garage for the toys, that's gotta reduce pin weight at least some.

I don't know how far forward the water tanks are but I believe they are usually up front right? I'd never need more than 100 gallons, so that's 840 lbs, the majority of that would go to the pin weight but not all of it unless it was directly over the axle. What I need to find out is what is an actual number listed on a fully loaded (as far as options from factory go) 381M shows on it's sticker. I'm curious how that compares to the general numbers listed on their website. Do they include the generator and propane tanks? That could add some weight.

Obviously I still have some research to do on the weights. So we'll see what I can verify with hard data.

I know a guy with my exact same truck and just got a new 351M. That is basically my exact setup but the 351 just has a 4' shorter garage (11' vs 15'). Hopefully in a week or so he's going to take is loaded trailer to a CAT scale and I should have some decent real world readings on what I can expect.

I'm not sure how that comparison is going to help you much. The 351M is a tandem axle, the 381 is a triple axle.......and the 351 is at least 1100 lbs lighter on the empty weight than the 381. My opinion is that even a 351M, if fully loaded (GVWR of 16,800 lbs) would likely produce at least 3300 - 3400 lbs of pin weight....plus the hitch, passengers, etc, etc. I'm not trying to be a "downer" here, I just think you need to know what to expect when you get into these large, triple axle trailers and how much weight they are going to put in the bed of the truck..... vs. .....the available payload of the towing truck.

There is a good reason that many of us that tow the triple axle camping type trailers use a F350 or F450 Dually with payload capacities in the 5200+ lbs of available payload.

[kevinpo]

Here you go,


HTH,
Kevin
PS: Here's the option list:

[backtrack2015]

It is not unheard of for fifth-wheels to start to misbehave (chucking etc.) with pin-weights less than 20%. So I guess I'd budget to load the pin to a minimum of 20% of total weight (whatever that is for you) just incase you have stability issues.

That being said, I would not be comfortable with a trailer that big hooked to my SRW truck. I'd want the reassurance of the additional tires on the rear axle (running at lower % of capacity) and the additional resistance to being pushed around that the wider foot-print and additional tire side-walls of a DRW provide.

[FirstAscent]

I'm not sure how that comparison is going to help you much. The 351M is a tandem axle, the 381 is a triple axle.......and the 351 is at least 1100 lbs lighter on the empty weight than the 381. My opinion is that even a 351M, if fully loaded (GVWR of 16,800 lbs) would likely produce at least 3300 - 3400 lbs of pin weight....plus the hitch, passengers, etc, etc. I'm not trying to be a "downer" here, I just think you need to know what to expect when you get into these large, triple axle trailers and how much weight they are going to put in the bed of the truck..... vs. .....the available payload of the towing truck.

There is a good reason that many of us that tow the triple axle camping type trailers use a F350 or F450 Dually with payload capacities in the 5200+ lbs of available payload.

Oh right, the 351 is a tandem axle and the 381 is triple, that would definitely change the balance of things. And no I definitely don't think you're being a downer, I really appreciate you giving your honest opinion! I've towed smaller trailers plenty but nothing close to the size of a fifth wheel. So I'm simply stating how I see it in my head which of course isn't reality, and that's why I'm here to make sure I have some real facts and not just "what I want" haha.

With that being said, and granted the 381 is 1k heavier, I would think the triple axle would help balance the load front to rear a little better? But maybe that's just simply not how it works.

If I didn't go with the 381, I did look at (only online) the 349M. It's a tandem axle, similar to the 351M, but has a 13' garage where the 351 has an 11' garage. My side by side is 11' so that would be a very tight fit I'd imagine.

The 349M has a UVW of 13500, hitch weight of 2925, and GVWR of 17000. So fairly similar to the 351 but a little more empty hitch weight.

Even though the 349 and 351 are 1000 lbs lighter than the 381, wouldn't I still be in the same boat as far as payload is concerned? Between all 3, loaded up exactly the same, I'd expect hitch weight to be "fairly" similar? Am I way off in my thinking?

Here you go,


HTH,
Kevin
PS: Here's the option list:

Thank you for this! finally some real numbers. I've been asking dealers for 2 days for the actual sticker numbers. I was getting tired of them telling me the exact same numbers posted on GD's website Thank you! So that trailer is 400 lbs more than what's posted on GD's site, I was expecting at least 300 more with options installed etc, so that's inline with what I imagined.

It is not unheard of for fifth-wheels to start to misbehave (chucking etc.) with pin-weights less than 20%. So I guess I'd budget to load the pin to a minimum of 20% of total weight (whatever that is for you) just incase you have stability issues.

That being said, I would not be comfortable with a trailer that big hooked to my SRW truck. I'd want the reassurance of the additional tires on the rear axle (running at lower % of capacity) and the additional resistance to being pushed around that the wider foot-print and additional tire side-walls of a DRW provide.

Thanks for this info, and your honest feedback on what you'd feel comfortable with. It definitely helps me in my decision making process. As much as I WANT the 381M, I'm not rushing this decision. I will get a fifth wheel toy hauler, just need to figure out which one and I'm not getting a dually, my truck is already on order, and I don't want a dually. So I'm stuck with what I can safely get by with.