Tow vehicle question

[Overtaxed]

I don't know about Chevy, but, in Ford, a 250 and 350 are basically the same truck with different stickers (depending on how you have them configured, of course).

The question is, are you trying to be legal or safe? If "legal" is your desire, you might as well stop reading and start truck shopping. 3/4 ton trucks with 10K GVWR packages are barely legal towing a golf cart, let alone a big 5th wheel. (Kidding for effect here, but the payload on a 250 is ridiculously low because of the truck class). However, at least in a Ford, a 250/350 are basically the same rolling chassis, same axle, same wheels/tires. So... If you care about being SAFE, then you need to start looking at the components and see if they are rated to take the load. Axle (RAWR is a good place to start), tires and wheels are critical. If you get too much sag, add an overload or airbags.

If you want to be safer, the answer is going to be dually. Going from a 250 to a 350 is silly, your basically (again, at least in Ford) buying a sticker and 0 or almost 0 margin of safety. Going to a dually really changes your safety profile. Your truck will carry it. A dually will carry it better and you'll be legal.

I bought a 351M with a F250, wound up trading it in on a F450. Not because it was bad, the 250 pulled it fine. The 450 is better, no doubt about it, but, for me, it was the safety that the dual rear wheels bought me that I was paying for.

[The Bone]

I am going to pull a 344 GK with my 3/4 ton truck. I see no problem at all. I don't think that yellow sticker is a legal document at all. I cant find on that sticker where it says if you go over this sticker you are going to jail.
Look at the axle load and tire load and go from there.
There is a max tow from the manufacture that says max trailer weight. Mine is 16,300. My empty trailer is 12,600. I never carry more junk than I need. If I don't use it than it doesn't go. I never carry anything in the bed of the truck.
Now for some math on that yellow sticker.
I have a 15 F250 lariat. The yellow sticker says I only have a payload of 2,300 pounds yet I can tow 16,300 pounds. Simple math here tells me that a 16,300 pound 5th wheel has a pin weight of 3,260. So why the difference? I have 7,000 pound axles. My tires have a load rating of 7,36 pounds.
There is plenty of safety built into these trucks. I wouldn't go with a bigger trailer than that for my truck.

[frank4711]

I am going to pull a 344 GK with my 3/4 ton truck. I see no problem at all. I don't think that yellow sticker is a legal document at all. I cant find on that sticker where it says if you go over this sticker you are going to jail.
Look at the axle load and tire load and go from there.
There is a max tow from the manufacture that says max trailer weight. Mine is 16,300. My empty trailer is 12,600. I never carry more junk than I need. If I don't use it than it doesn't go. I never carry anything in the bed of the truck.
Now for some math on that yellow sticker.
I have a 15 F250 lariat. The yellow sticker says I only have a payload of 2,300 pounds yet I can tow 16,300 pounds. Simple math here tells me that a 16,300 pound 5th wheel has a pin weight of 3,260. So why the difference? I have 7,000 pound axles. My tires have a load rating of 7,36 pounds.
There is plenty of safety built into these trucks. I wouldn't go with a bigger trailer than that for my truck.

Many tow just as you will it is not the yellow sticker it is the manufacturer GVWR that you will be over and should not be exceed ... I see the math and also question why engineers use 10000 as GVWR on these 3/4 ton truck I think it is just paperwork to save money on taxes and registration fees .... however I disagree with the argument that 3/4 is same truck as 1 ton ... it is not axles are different leaf springs in rear ... did you replace your axles in your 3/4 ton? ... certainly your choice ... later Frank

[Overtaxed]

Many tow just as you will it is not the yellow sticker it is the manufacturer GVWR that you will be over and should not be exceed ... I see the math and also question why engineers use 10000 as GVWR on these 3/4 ton truck I think it is just paperwork to save money on taxes and registration fees .... however I disagree with the argument that 3/4 is same truck as 1 ton ... it is not axles are different leaf springs in rear ... did you replace your axles in your 3/4 ton? ... certainly your choice ... later Frank

It really depends on the manufacturer and the options on each truck (3/4 or 1 ton). In Ford, in the 250, it's possible to get it configured (mine was) with just about everything identical to a 350. Same tires, same axle, same rims. The difference comes down to the sticker and an overload spring. And the overload spring is easily added or airbags added to make a 250 "into" a 350 with a different sticker.

And yes, as you point out, this is mostly/all a registration/taxation issue. Vehicles over a certain GVWR have a different class rating and different tax structure in some areas (like where I live). A 450 is almost 2X the cost to register as a 250, it's over 1000 dollars difference year one, and probably close to 1000 for the next few years (until the value of the vehicle drops). So, over a 5 year ownership period, a 350 probably runs 5000 more in taxes/registration than a 250. That's why the "250 class" exists, it's a "registration beater", basically a derated 350 (again, assuming you option them similarly).

I have a 15 F250 lariat. The yellow sticker says I only have a payload of 2,300 pounds yet I can tow 16,300 pounds. Simple math here tells me that a 16,300 pound 5th wheel has a pin weight of 3,260. So why the difference? I have 7,000 pound axles. My tires have a load rating of 7,36 pounds.

Why the difference? Because the 250 is limited to 9,900 lbs on the frame and the 350 is not. The towing rating of these vehicles doesn't take GVWR into account (or it doesn't seem too, my 250 was rated like yours, around 2K in payload with a ~17K 5th wheel rating.. What 5er puts 10% of the weight on the pin?!).

[Flip94ta]

The yellow sticker is associated with the GVW of the truck. Knowingly or unknowingly exceeding that and being involved in an accident will create lots more legal documents.

So many folks worry about receiving a citation or ticket for being overweight. That is NOT the problem at all, it’s the civil side you really need to worry about. I have friends in the trucking insurance agency. The lawyers search the police reports and will reach out to the accident victims several times to pick up a case.

https://www.personalinjuryclaimsblaw...ity-for-rvers/

http://www.randolphwolf.com/blog/tow...rweight-loads/

And my favorite because they mention “Dangerously Overweight”

https://www.justaccidentlaw.com/moto...s-motor-homes/

So yes a diesel or ecoboost will pull a train or space shuttle, that doesn’t make it a legal operation. I don’t know how the 250 vs 350 being similar would play out in courts. I’m not sure I would want to find out.

Sorry to sound preachy, encouraging others by saying I do it and it’s fine could unknowingly put someone in a bind.

[Roll With The Changes]

I have a 15 F250 lariat. The yellow sticker says I only have a payload of 2,300 pounds yet I can tow 16,300 pounds. Simple math here tells me that a 16,300 pound 5th wheel has a pin weight of 3,260. So why the difference?

This is where everything gets sticky. SAE J2807 specifies 15% pin weight for gooseneck and fifth wheels. (Reference needed)

But in 2015 Ford and GM had not adopted the standard which means they could claim whatever they wanted for towing capacity.

"Ford went ahead and certified the 2015 F-450's tow rating using J2807 because of its upgraded engine and substantially upgraded underpinnings. But it decided not to do the same with the carryover F-250 and F-350 lineups, which will be fully redesigned next year."

That came from Edmunds.

At least now that part is straightened out...

[RVRunners]

The yellow sticker is associated with the GVW of the truck. Knowingly or unknowingly exceeding that and being involved in an accident will create lots more legal documents.

So many folks worry about receiving a citation or ticket for being overweight. That is NOT the problem at all, it’s the civil side you really need to worry about. I have friends in the trucking insurance agency. The lawyers search the police reports and will reach out to the accident victims several times to pick up a case.

https://www.personalinjuryclaimsblaw...ity-for-rvers/

http://www.randolphwolf.com/blog/tow...rweight-loads/

And my favorite because they mention “Dangerously Overweight”

https://www.justaccidentlaw.com/moto...s-motor-homes/

So yes a diesel or ecoboost will pull a train or space shuttle, that doesn’t make it a safe or legal operation. I don’t know how the 250 vs 350 being similar would play out in courts. I’m not sure I would want to find out.

I agree better to be within your numbers on axle weight ratings, payload, GVWR, tow rating, etc. For Ford the 6.7L diesel powertrain is similar if not identical for F250 through F550 and now is being used in the F650 & F750 trucks with GVWR as high as 33,000#. This is the reason for the high tow ratings but the chassis on the Class 2 (3/4 ton) trucks does become the limiting factor in terms of payload and axle ratings. We own several Fords in our business F250, SRW F350, DRW F350, F550, etc. and the chassis components (frame, axles, hubs, brakes, etc.) are different. The differences between the F250 and SRW F350 are subtle with a different spring pack and axles.

I understand the tax issues in some states and that de-rated stickers are a common thing, however, if you are involved in a MVA these items will almost certainly be investigated. In Indiana we are fortunate that the BMV fees are not astronomical for the higher weight classes. Our F550 flat bed has a Class 5 GVWR of 19,500# but Indiana’s tags are offered in fewer increments (11,000#, then 16,000#, then 26,000# so it has a 26,000# plate and I think the registration fees for our recent renewal were between $200 and $300. Indiana hits you the hardest on vehicle age and purchase price as the excise tax portion of the registration is higher on a new vehicle with a hefty price tag. Indiana also likes RV’s - since an RV is considered a luxury item the excise tax portion is higher. Our Reflection 367BHS is a 2017 we purchased new in 2016 so I have now done four renewals and the registration is still north of $600 - started out the first year at around $750.

[Roll With The Changes]

I am going to pull a 344 GK with my 3/4 ton truck. I see no problem at all. I don't think that yellow sticker is a legal document at all. I cant find on that sticker where it says if you go over this sticker you are going to jail.

Sorry. I had to....

[Flip94ta]

Haha haha!!!

[The Bone]

They put that same tag on the mattress LOL