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  1. #41
    Rolling Along
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD68 View Post
    My specific truck (High Capacity Trailer Tow Package) is identical to the most robust 2019 F350 SRW truck available with the exception of the rear leaf springs, but my self imposed limit is not directly related to the (current or previous) GVWR of an F350. Instead it has to do with logic. When inflated to 80 psi, my tires are rated at 7500 lbs. combined. No problem there. The wheels are rated at 7180 lbs. combined. Also not an issue. I have the same Dana axle as a SRW F350 so it is clearly up to the task but in the F250 application, it is only rated to 6340 lbs. Of course that axle rating has nothing to do with the axle itself. It is driven by the lowest rated component of the rear suspension. The only remaining components are the leaf springs which have a lower compression rating (and one less leaf) than an F350. Now, you can get an F250 with the weaker Sterling axle and no overload springs and it will still have the same 6340 lbs. axle rating. That doesn't make logical sense but is a clear indicator that the 6340 lbs. rating of my rear suspension is conservative. So, 6340 pounds on the rear axle is my self imposed limit. That would allow for approximately 3500 pounds of payload. With a fully loaded 303RLS I am under my self imposed limit. More importantly, the truck handles the load with ease. By the way, one of the primary reasons I chose the 303 over the 337 was to avoid the higher pin weight (along with the added length). Like you, I felt like the 337 was more than I wanted to drag behind a SRW truck. I could not be happier with my truck and trailer combination.
    I like your logical approach. I presented a similar explanation with my current truck and was shamed quite severely here. I would like to add something to your analysis though. GVWR and GCWR are still valid numbers. In determining GVWR, braking performance would be considered so even if you can justify axle loading, it is still possible to exceed even the higher GVWR of the the 350. GCWR, in the spirit of SAE J2807 is based on performance of driveline components as well as stability which would be affected by more than just the rear axle loading limits. I didn't do the research on your truck so I can't question your conclusions.

    I appreciate you doing your homework and bringing some intelligent input to one of these conversations.

    And a few more things to add. From reading many of these discussions and the input of people from many different backgrounds, I have reached a few conclusions. The "manufacturer's recommended ratings" are all somewhat arbitrary. They are constrained by various SAE stardards and government requirements but they are still driven by marketing. A great example is J2807. It was seven years after the standard was written that Ford and GM were finally the last ones to be shamed into adopting the standard. Further, as was well pointed out to me on another thread, the ratings themselves (yellow, white, silver, pick your color stickers) have absolutely zero legal backing (in most states).

    Bottom line: Do your research and make an informed logical decision.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by backtrack2015 View Post
    I thought your rear GAWR sticker might be limited by the tires as inflated to the recommended 65 psi (IIRC) as opposed to the full 80 psi of the sticker on the F350. I didn’t realize the rear springs were different.
    Even if the tires, as inflated from the factory, were the limiting factor, it would not make sense to let that be the the limiting factor mechanically. Inflating the tires to max pressure or simply purchasing new tires with a higher load rating is a simple solution.
    2019 F250 Platinum, 6.7, LB, FX4, High Capacity Tow Package
    B & W Companion
    2019 303RLS

  3. #43
    Rolling Along backtrack2015's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD68 View Post
    Even if the tires, as inflated from the factory, were the limiting factor, it would not make sense to let that be the the limiting factor mechanically. Inflating the tires to max pressure or simply purchasing new tires with a higher load rating is a simple solution.
    I agree. I was just speculating about the source of the factory number.
    2017 F-350 CCSB 6.7L
    2021 Micro Minnie 2100BH
    previously - Reflection 28BH, Intech Pursue

  4. #44
    Seasoned Camper frank4711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by backtrack2015 View Post
    They ought to simply rebrand the 350 SRW as a 250, then make only a 350 DRW (in addition to 450 etc). Now that 10K has been broken, there just isn't a need for both a 250 and SRW 350.
    If all components are the same I would agree... I can only speak for Ram ... they are not the same truck... it has always been clear that 3/4 ton trucks are limited because of the 10000 GVWR manufacturers would not cross... if Ford is going to use the same GVWR for 250/350 then it is the same truck... it may sound silly but if all parts are same them it is the same truck if not then they are different.. there is no almost the same... later Frank
    Frank & Cindy --- S Class Solitude 2930RL-R ---2019 Ram 3500 Cummins 6.7 SRW 4x4 8' bed---Remi & Sage traveling Pomskies ---TST 507 TPMS ... B&W Patriot 18K---3.73 axle ... Predator 3500--Backflip MX4---48 days 2019---51 days camped 2020---***Payload 4394***

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank4711 View Post
    If all components are the same I would agree... I can only speak for Ram ... they are not the same truck... it has always been clear that 3/4 ton trucks are limited because of the 10000 GVWR manufacturers would not cross... if Ford is going to use the same GVWR for 250/350 then it is the same truck... it may sound silly but if all parts are same them it is the same truck if not then they are different.. there is no almost the same... later Frank
    RAM is the exception. The 2500 has a rear coil suspension as opposed to the leaf springs of the 3500. They offer two different versions of the Cummins (standard and high output) and match them to different transmissions. As I stated earlier in this thread, with Ford it is possible to build a 250 that is identical to a 350 with the exception of the softer rear leaf springs. That is not a truck you would find on a dealer's lot but can be special ordered as I did.
    2019 F250 Platinum, 6.7, LB, FX4, High Capacity Tow Package
    B & W Companion
    2019 303RLS

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roll With The Changes View Post
    I like your logical approach. I presented a similar explanation with my current truck and was shamed quite severely here. I would like to add something to your analysis though. GVWR and GCWR are still valid numbers. In determining GVWR, braking performance would be considered so even if you can justify axle loading, it is still possible to exceed even the higher GVWR of the the 350. GCWR, in the spirit of SAE J2807 is based on performance of driveline components as well as stability which would be affected by more than just the rear axle loading limits. I didn't do the research on your truck so I can't question your conclusions.

    I appreciate you doing your homework and bringing some intelligent input to one of these conversations.

    And a few more things to add. From reading many of these discussions and the input of people from many different backgrounds, I have reached a few conclusions. The "manufacturer's recommended ratings" are all somewhat arbitrary. They are constrained by various SAE stardards and government requirements but they are still driven by marketing. A great example is J2807. It was seven years after the standard was written that Ford and GM were finally the last ones to be shamed into adopting the standard. Further, as was well pointed out to me on another thread, the ratings themselves (yellow, white, silver, pick your color stickers) have absolutely zero legal backing (in most states).

    Bottom line: Do your research and make an informed logical decision.
    Using my self imposed limit, it is possible to load my truck so that it would just exceed the GVWR (11,500 lbs.) of a comparable F350. That comparison is irrelevant to me because I am looking at each individual component's own rating and making sure that it is not exceeded.

    Braking is of no concern. Ford has assigned my truck a 25,700 pound GCWR so they are obviously confident that it can stop a load of that size. If my trailer is loaded to it's 15,000 GVWR, I am rolling down the road at a GCW around 23,500 pounds, 2,200 pounds under the truck's rating.
    2019 F250 Platinum, 6.7, LB, FX4, High Capacity Tow Package
    B & W Companion
    2019 303RLS

  7. #47
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    Now for the dumbest question on the thread.....what is srw and drw? I imagine rw=rear wheel?

  8. #48
    Big Traveler
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    Now for the dumbest question on the thread.....what is srw and drw? I imagine rw=rear wheel?
    LOL, no, like every board, we all talk in "code" here.

    SRW - Single rear wheel
    DRW - Dual rear wheel (dually)

  9. #49
    Big Traveler
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    These 3/4 ton Vs. 1 ton conversations will end soon because manufacturers are no longer interested in capping the 250/2500 GVWR at 10,000 pounds. It has always been a regulatory issue, never a true capability issue. It has always been possible to equip 250/2500 trucks to be identical, or nearly so, to a 350/3500 SRW. The difference was that the 250/2500 GVWR was always capped at 10,000 lbs. 10,000 pounds is a Class 2 truck, 10,001 pounds is a Class 3; potentially different registration, insurance, licensing, etc.
    I hope so. But there's another factor to consider here, you can still (at least, AFAIK) get a de-rate on a 250 to take it down to 10K. In states like mine, the difference in taxes between 10K and 10,001 lbs is almost double. The 250 was a "registration beater" for me, and I think it still may still be if they sell it with the derate.

    Edit: Just checked my local dealer, every 250 on their lot has the derate (9,990) on it, so it appears that it's still going on, at least here in SC where a 250 might be 2K a year to register but a 450 is 3.5K!

    It's insanity and far too difficult to figure out, and that difficulty exists for NO reason other than history and beating regulations. You can get a 250 (I had one) that has less payload than a 150. That makes 0 sense at all.

    If we're going to try to fix this, really there should be 2 HD trucks (from Ford anyway), a 350SRW and a 450. The 250 simply shouldn't exist, it's not different enough from a 350, the cost is almost identical, it's silly. Also, the 350 DRW and 450 are way too close, why have 2? If you want a dually, get a 450, if you want a HD single rear wheel, here's a 350 for you. It's so silly to take the same truck, put one badge with a 250 another with a 350 and limit the towing capacity on the one that starts with a "2".
    Last edited by Overtaxed; 08-01-2020 at 07:31 PM.

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