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  1. #11
    Rolling Along
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    Quote Originally Posted by JColeman View Post
    Big boy rules. Concealed means concealed, even in conversation.

    Having said the above, I myself would never break a local law and would just lie on the ground, blow my rape whistle and piss myself until help came if I were confronted. That's the correct choice right?

    BTW, in most localities you can get in just as much trouble for using bear spray as a firearm. Both are considered weapons in NPEs (Non Permissive Environments) if they are used against people. OTOH, strict observance of the 4S rule will keep you out of most trouble. 4S Rule: 1)Stupid people, 2) Doing stupid things, at 3) Stupid times, and in 4) Stupid places.

    Examples: Do you need to be at an ATM at 2:00am? Do you need to go to the protest march? Do you need to hang out with drunks at unruly bars? Do you need to wear the opposing team's jersey at the game?
    Quote Originally Posted by geotex1 View Post
    The one piece of advice I will give with regard to self defense, and it is the most important and also the most difficult for many people - you must learn to have situational awareness ALL OF THE TIME - all of the area details, the appearance and body language of everyone in proximity, escape/avoidance routes, check blind spots, and so-on. I can tell you since the era of cell phones, earbuds, and rush-rush-rush, people are more oblivious than ever to the situation they put themselves in. Awareness of the situation at all time is your best protection.
    Quote Originally Posted by Calnca View Post
    Kimber, .45 caliber, laser/light......it's my "mobile castle" so I can defend it.....would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6
    All good answers... I need not say no more.

  2. #12
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    There are some good replies here and they all touch on something a little different, from coyote races and angry bears to situational awareness. I will nix the idea of the wasp spray and look further into the bear spray. Knowing the laws of where you are is a bit difficult at times. I am a licensed to carry in my state but I am not sure California even recognizes their own gun laws. And some states like Idaho, I am not sure you can do too much wrong as long as you use common sense.
    2019 29rs
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  3. #13
    Long Hauler geotex1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorend View Post
    There are some good replies here and they all touch on something a little different, from coyote races and angry bears to situational awareness. I will nix the idea of the wasp spray and look further into the bear spray. Knowing the laws of where you are is a bit difficult at times. I am a licensed to carry in my state but I am not sure California even recognizes their own gun laws. And some states like Idaho, I am not sure you can do too much wrong as long as you use common sense.
    You would be surprised the detail of information you can find quickly about every State you plan on traveling by simply visiting the State Attorney General's websites.

    FYI on California - the country tends to believe California is as portrayed by what is really just Coastal California. Go inland and it is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT, and folks say hello, help you out, and like their firearms!
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  4. #14
    Rolling Along backtrack2015's Avatar
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    I shouldn't have been so flippant about the law, which is certainly something I endeavor to follow. I certainly am not looking for trouble and I truly hope I never need to use the spray on any animal or human. All of that being said, what I really meant was, in the heat of the moment an imminent threat will be met with whatever is available with little consideration for the law... whistles, frying pans, baseball bats, camp chairs, frozen peas, bear spray, (please not the camp axe), guns.... that just feels like common sense, but maybe I've just lived in TX too long.
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  5. #15
    Site Sponsor SGT ROC's Avatar
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    "Originally Posted by JColeman View Post

    Big boy rules. Concealed means concealed, even in conversation.

    Having said the above, I myself would never break a local law and would just lie on the ground, blow my rape whistle and piss myself until help came if I were confronted. That's the correct choice right?

    BTW, in most localities you can get in just as much trouble for using bear spray as a firearm. Both are considered weapons in NPEs (Non Permissive Environments) if they are used against people. OTOH, strict observance of the 4S rule will keep you out of most trouble. 4S Rule: 1)Stupid people, 2) Doing stupid things, at 3) Stupid times, and in 4) Stupid places.

    Examples: Do you need to be at an ATM at 2:00am? Do you need to go to the protest march? Do you need to hang out with drunks at unruly bars? Do you need to wear the opposing team's jersey at the game?
    Quote Originally Posted by geotex1 View Post

    The one piece of advice I will give with regard to self defense, and it is the most important and also the most difficult for many people - you must learn to have situational awareness ALL OF THE TIME - all of the area details, the appearance and body language of everyone in proximity, escape/avoidance routes, check blind spots, and so-on. I can tell you since the era of cell phones, earbuds, and rush-rush-rush, people are more oblivious than ever to the situation they put themselves in. Awareness of the situation at all time is your best protection.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calnca View Post

    Kimber, .45 caliber, laser/light......it's my "mobile castle" so I can defend it.....would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6"

    Quote Originally Posted by Roll With The Changes View Post
    All good answers... I need not say no more.
    I agree with all of the above. Also Carrying a concealed weapon is a huge responsibility. Know the law. A guide to know what states accept permits from others you can go to this site https://www.usacarry.com/concealed_c...city_maps.html
    Bob (retired) & Vicki
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  6. #16
    Seasoned Camper Phansen404's Avatar
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    As a former LE Academy pepper spray instructor, you better know how YOU are going to react if you use pepper spray/bear spray. If you use it, even in the ideal environmental situations, you WILL get some too. If you use it, you better make darn sure you're upwind and you perp is not moving around. The head is a very hard target to hit when it's moving. If you use it, even in the ideal environmental situations, you WILL get some too. Most over-the-counter sprays are less than 25% of the LE spray issued to cops. The capsaicin concentration in OTC is about 1-2% whereas LE is between 15-30%. Even in the good stuff, it's only 80% effective on most people. Many people are under the assumption that pain is the result of sprays. NOT TRUE. What is true, is the pain is nothing more than a healing 3rd degree burn which lasts approx 15-30 seconds. (in most cases, that will be enough to run away. You definitely don't want to stand your ground or be in a position you can't run away) In people under the influence, drugs or alcohol or mentally ill, the brain pain receptors are negated so they won't feel pain. Sprays do cause a temporary reaction if sprayed directly into the eyes of the eyes slamming shut which is quickly and easily overcome with the tearing that occurs. In people under the influence, drugs or alcohol or mentally ill, the brain pain receptors are negated so they won't feel pain. The best thing a person can do is: know your surroundings and avoid situations. If it doesn't feel right, it's not.
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by backtrack2015 View Post
    I shouldn't have been so flippant about the law, which is certainly something I endeavor to follow. I certainly am not looking for trouble and I truly hope I never need to use the spray on any animal or human. All of that being said, what I really meant was, in the heat of the moment an imminent threat will be met with whatever is available with little consideration for the law... whistles, frying pans, baseball bats, camp chairs, frozen peas, bear spray, (please not the camp axe), guns.... that just feels like common sense, but maybe I've just lived in TX too long.
    Backtrack, no need to backtrack on your first response. I think that you just summed up everybodies feelings. If it comes to a life making decision between family and felons, it seems like a very easy choice. You will have time later to deal with the consequences. My dad used to say, don't start the fight but don't lose the fight.
    2019 29rs
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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by geotex1 View Post
    You would be surprised the detail of information you can find quickly about every State you plan on traveling by simply visiting the State Attorney General's websites.

    FYI on California - the country tends to believe California is as portrayed by what is really just Coastal California. Go inland and it is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT, and folks say hello, help you out, and like their firearms!
    geotex1, I totally agree with you. I have met great people in California. But so many of their laws are passed by a few in the large metropolitan areas and the rest of the state suffers because of it. The same thing applies to Oregon and Washington. Just read where Eastern Oregon and Northern California want to join the state of Idaho.
    2019 29rs
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  9. #19
    Seasoned Camper Calnca's Avatar
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    I think the comments made about "situational awareness" are really the crux of the issue. If you are in tune with your surroundings, you should be aware of and able to avoid most bad scenarios. No matter where I am.....office buildings to back woods of Montana, I am aware of everything going on. I'm certainly not one you would find walking down the street with my head in my phone.

    The other point is some people are "victims" and some people aren't. If/when you carry yourself in a manner that says I won't suffer fools, so stay away from me, more often than not the bad guys will pick an easier target. I walked a number of times from downtown Manhattan to mid-town, wearing a suit and carrying a briefcase, and was never once confronted, or threatened.....there were easier targets than me.
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  10. #20
    Rolling Along
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    The consequences for this type of thing come in many forms. I personally believe the lifelong internal consequences would far outweigh the legal repercussions. Those internal consequences apply just as much to failing to act as to overreacting. Not sure if this forum is the best place, but I think it is an important conversation. I say think things through now, in the comfort of a conversation so that in the moment you are better prepared to make a decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by geotex1 View Post

    So, know the laws. Know your limitations. Be at peace with how you decide you will react.

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