Moving batteries (lithium install)

[Lance Glogowsky]

Looks OK.

Front compartment bus bars vary between the rigs and might be tight for connecting larger wire lugs.
You may have a copper bar with auto resetting CBs connected to it.
So I like the idea of adding some bus bars, like the Blue Sea or Fastronix 3/8" 4 Stud Power Distribution Block with Cover to make it easier to connect several wires.

The 00 (2/0) wire size is good for the batteries and inverter. Guessing you've got a 2000W or less size inverter.
The inverter manual should suggest the wire size to use per model/size.
I did use some 4/0 just b/c I'd bought it early on & so used it, but I didn't have to go that large.

The Class T or ANL fuse would go to the inverter's +DC input. It protects the cables against a failure in the inverter electronics.
I put a fuse near the battery connection b/c there's a whole lot of stored energy in these batteries and I'd rather pop a fuse then accidentally melt a wire or tool.

The BMV shunt has 3/8" brass bolt connections for the wire lugs.

CO2 detector wiring also seems to vary with models.
I think C)2 and my radio's memory power would still be powered on with the battery disconnect switch off as originally wired.
I lost track of whether it was wired in at the front compartment or the DC panel.

What size fuse on the batteries + 4 awg cable and on the 2/0 1500W Inverter + cable going to the battery. Thanks

[gbkims]

What size fuse on the batteries + 4 awg cable and on the 2/0 1500W Inverter + cable going to the battery. Thanks

I'd use:
Battery 2/0 to bus bar, MRBF 300A fuse
Inverter 1500W with 2/0 wire, Class T or ANL 200A fuse
DC Panel to existing auto reset CB, install a Bussmann CB285-60 Amp CB

Based on a couple of 1500W inverter manuals:
Samlex Owner's Manual: https://www.samlexamerica.com/docume...-0117-Lrez.pdf
4.1 Sizing of cables and Fuses for DC Input
1500W Inverter, Fuse 200A
Specs: https://www.samlexamerica.com/docume...0-12A-0117.pdf
1500W Model No. SSW-1500-12A, DC INPUT CURRENT AT RATED LOAD 150A

Go Power! GP-ISW1500-12#2F-200A
https://gpelectric.com/wp-content/up...N_ISW_RevE.pdf
https://gpelectric.com/wp-content/up...0_RevE-min.pdf

[Lance Glogowsky]

I'd use:
Battery 2/0 to bus bar, MRBF 300A fuse
Inverter 1500W with 2/0 wire, Class T or ANL 200A fuse
DC Panel to existing auto reset CB, install a Bussmann CB285-60 Amp CB

Based on a couple of 1500W inverter manuals:
Samlex Owner's Manual: https://www.samlexamerica.com/docume...-0117-Lrez.pdf
4.1 Sizing of cables and Fuses for DC Input
1500W Inverter, Fuse 200A
Specs: https://www.samlexamerica.com/docume...0-12A-0117.pdf
1500W Model No. SSW-1500-12A, DC INPUT CURRENT AT RATED LOAD 150A

Go Power! GP-ISW1500-12#2F-200A
https://gpelectric.com/wp-content/up...N_ISW_RevE.pdf
https://gpelectric.com/wp-content/up...0_RevE-min.pdf

I’m guessing it would not be proper to use a 300 amp MRBF terminal fuse block on the battery post to cover both of the inverter and to protect the battery?

[walkerrt]

Lance,
I'd have to draw it out to be sure I understand it all. But here are some thoughts.

Yes, upgrading 6g is warranted. IMHO GD did a very bad thing putting 55A on 6g no matter how short the run. However, 4g wire has almost twice the resistance of 2g. You have to go to 00 drop another half. I'm going all 2g.
Attachment 26190

It sounds like your disconnect would cut off the brakes.

I believe all fuses and disconnects should be on the same side of the system. Most folks do the pos, but there are a lot of misunderstandings about negative disconnects.

If you use 00 for the inverter pos, then the neg should match, all the way to the battery. Otherwise you have an electrical bottleneck (heater), or a fuse.

Shortening the wire runs is a the main reason I'm putting my batteries next to the charger & panel. Heat and space saving are #2 & 3.


Walkerrt,
I'm afraid there isn't enough info in your post to make a meaningful comment. I suggest measuring each circuit out of the panel as well as the whole load. Some rigs have several sensors and electronics that don't go through the main power panel.

A residential fridge could drain a typical battery that fast.

Inverters have a load when not in use as well as an efficiency penalty.

When you get some more info you might want to start a new thread. You'll get more attention that way.

With the battery disconnect flipped and testing the ohms of draw, I have .9 amps going out. I'm thinking i have an issue in the converter. Granted the fridge is huge and has fans and stuff in it and certain the wifi and wireless system are draws too. My ultimate plan is to upgrade to 2 lithiums and a converter that will charge them fully. Looking at the system that there the single lead acid deepcell almost seems silly.

[Lance Glogowsky]

I'd use:
Battery 2/0 to bus bar, MRBF 300A fuse
Inverter 1500W with 2/0 wire, Class T or ANL 200A fuse
DC Panel to existing auto reset CB, install a Bussmann CB285-60 Amp CB

Based on a couple of 1500W inverter manuals:
Samlex Owner's Manual: https://www.samlexamerica.com/docume...-0117-Lrez.pdf
4.1 Sizing of cables and Fuses for DC Input
1500W Inverter, Fuse 200A
Specs: https://www.samlexamerica.com/docume...0-12A-0117.pdf
1500W Model No. SSW-1500-12A, DC INPUT CURRENT AT RATED LOAD 150A

Go Power! GP-ISW1500-12#2F-200A
https://gpelectric.com/wp-content/up...N_ISW_RevE.pdf
https://gpelectric.com/wp-content/up...0_RevE-min.pdf

Gene:

Ok, after looking at a few sights, I'm guessing the best route is to connect a MRBF 300 AMP FUSE block to the + battery post with the 4 awg attached and then the 2/0 inverter cable to the post with the ANL 200 amp fuse on the cable?

I'm sure it will be a breather for you when you stop receiving these questions from me.

Thanks
Lance

[RickLight]

With the battery disconnect flipped and testing the ohms of draw, I have .9 amps going out. I'm thinking i have an issue in the converter. Granted the fridge is huge and has fans and stuff in it and certain the wifi and wireless system are draws too. My ultimate plan is to upgrade to 2 lithiums and a converter that will charge them fully. Looking at the system that there the single lead acid deepcell almost seems silly.

I have to ask, did you measure ohms or amps?

1A continuous draw doesn't sound like a lot for all that stuff. But it would put a 100AH battery near half in 2 days. Going from 50AH useable to 200AH useable seems wise. $olar might be a good idea as well.

[walkerrt]

The amp of draw is just the converter. The rest of the camper off. My meter is fused at 10amps so I didnt dare try to measure the consumption of the refrigerator and wireless rig from the battery with the draw already there from the converter.

[RickLight]

I've never heard of a converter using 12V power.

If your base load is anywhere near 10A then you need to be on power almost constantly. You couldn't make it overnight without killing your battery.

[gbkims]

I’m guessing it would not be proper to use a 300 amp MRBF terminal fuse block on the battery post to cover both of the inverter and to protect the battery?

Lance,
The questions are good. Makes me go back to see why I selected my cables and fuses.

How close are your batteries to the inverter? For short distance between them a single MRBF Fuse at the battery post, then 2/0 to Inverter would cover them both.
I'm thinking you could lower the MRBF Fuse to say 250A.
This would cover the 1500W inverter's 150A DC INPUT CURRENT AT RATED LOAD
And the estimated RV loads of ~55A
(Lights 10A, TV Booster 1A, Water Heater 6A, Water Pump 7A, Furnace 12A, Frig 3A, Fantastic Fan 1.5A, Power Vent Fan 5A, Awning 10A) from owners manual.

MRBF Fuse - https://datasheet.octopart.com/MRBF-...t-17254347.pdf

DC Cable for our RVs is kind of a use that isn't directly covered by the National Electric Code
I'm using welding cable for continuous amps use. Welders have a duty cycle, so not continuous amps usage, and the NEC Article 630 Electric Welders doesn't seem to apply to my use.
That's why I go to the Inverter's manuals for fusing guidance.
My 2/0 is welding cable is the standard 600V -50°C +105°C Jacket, which uses EPDM insulation.
SC Stage cable is like welding cable and there's a section in the NEC 2020 for it.

Table 400.5(A)(2) Ampacity of Cable Types SC, SCE
2/0 Copper Conductor, 300A with 90C Temperature Rating of Cable
Stage and Lighting Power Cable SC, Thermoset, SCO Thermoplastic Elastomer, Voltage 600V

What is Type SC cable?
Type SC entertainment cable is a single conductor cable made with a fully annealed stranded 30 gauge bare copper conductor at its core. The copper center is surrounded with a high grade RoHS-compliant CPE insulator and jacketed with black TPE (thermoplastic elastomer). TPE has a high-flex rating, is recyclable, and works well in temperatures ranging from -50°C to + 105°C (-58°F to +221°F).

[Lance Glogowsky]

Lance,
The questions are good. Makes me go back to see why I selected my cables and fuses.

How close are your batteries to the inverter? For short distance between them a single MRBF Fuse at the battery post, then 2/0 to Inverter would cover them both.
I'm thinking you could lower the MRBF Fuse to say 250A.
This would cover the 1500W inverter's 150A DC INPUT CURRENT AT RATED LOAD
And the estimated RV loads of ~55A
(Lights 10A, TV Booster 1A, Water Heater 6A, Water Pump 7A, Furnace 12A, Frig 3A, Fantastic Fan 1.5A, Power Vent Fan 5A, Awning 10A) from owners manual.

MRBF Fuse - https://datasheet.octopart.com/MRBF-...t-17254347.pdf

DC Cable for our RVs is kind of a use that isn't directly covered by the National Electric Code
I'm using welding cable for continuous amps use. Welders have a duty cycle, so not continuous amps usage, and the NEC Article 630 Electric Welders doesn't seem to apply to my use.
That's why I go to the Inverter's manuals for fusing guidance.
My 2/0 is welding cable is the standard 600V -50°C +105°C Jacket, which uses EPDM insulation.
SC Stage cable is like welding cable and there's a section in the NEC 2020 for it.

Table 400.5(A)(2) Ampacity of Cable Types SC, SCE
2/0 Copper Conductor, 300A with 90C Temperature Rating of Cable
Stage and Lighting Power Cable SC, Thermoset, SCO Thermoplastic Elastomer, Voltage 600V

What is Type SC cable?
Type SC entertainment cable is a single conductor cable made with a fully annealed stranded 30 gauge bare copper conductor at its core. The copper center is surrounded with a high grade RoHS-compliant CPE insulator and jacketed with black TPE (thermoplastic elastomer). TPE has a high-flex rating, is recyclable, and works well in temperatures ranging from -50°C to + 105°C (-58°F to +221°F).

I’m guessing it would not be necessary to disconnect the -6 gage wire from the DC panel to the battery front compartment and I can just add the 4 gauge wire with it from the DC panel to the front compartment?