Rusting Rivets on outside steps

**MichiganMarty** · 03-09-2020, 09:02 AM

I guess I have another mod to perform. I need to replace all the rivets holding the aluminum steps onto the step structure. These should be made of Stainless Steel, but they are made from a ferrous (iron/steel) material with what might be a zing plating. I have one rivet that is rusting and is unsightly. Combine that with the fact that aluminum and steel do not get along well together and it create a galvanic reaction. What that means is the step is going to corrode and disappear around the bad rivet. LCI needs to fix their production requirements.

**WhittleBurner** · 03-09-2020, 11:10 AM

Might be time to think about going with the Glow steps. Way esier to navigate than the lippert oem steps.

**Canyonlight** · 03-09-2020, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by MichiganMarty

I guess I have another mod to perform. I need to replace all the rivets holding the aluminum steps onto the step structure. These should be made of Stainless Steel, but they are made from a ferrous (iron/steel) material with what might be a zing plating. I have one rivet that is rusting and is unsightly. Combine that with the fact that aluminum and steel do not get along well together and it create a galvanic reaction. What that means is the step is going to corrode and disappear around the bad rivet. LCI needs to fix their production requirements.

This is interesting as I think your new 367 has the same LCI aluminum folding steps as your 2014 337 or ? I do not recall this type of thing being posted before on early year GDRVs or newer ones for that matter with these folding aluminum tread plate steps. Is there something different with these newer steps or possibly yours (or something which may have happened to your 2020 367 ?)

Dan

**MichiganMarty** · 03-09-2020, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by Canyonlight

This is interesting as I think your new 367 has the same LCI aluminum folding steps as your 2014 337 or ? I do not recall this type of thing being posted before on early year GDRVs or newer ones for that matter with these folding aluminum tread plate steps. Is there something different with these newer steps or possibly yours (or something which may have happened to your 2020 367 ?)

Dan

Same type but different. These are all riveted together, My 337 was bolts and nuts for the construction, not sure about the aluminum tread fasteners.
I don't know what you mean, "something happened to my 367?"

**MichiganMarty** · 03-09-2020, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by Canyonlight

This is interesting as I think your new 367 has the same LCI aluminum folding steps as your 2014 337 or ? I do not recall this type of thing being posted before on early year GDRVs or newer ones for that matter with these folding aluminum tread plate steps. Is there something different with these newer steps or possibly yours (or something which may have happened to your 2020 367 ?)

Dan

Same type but different. These are all riveted together, My 337 was bolts and nuts for the construction, not sure about the aluminum tread fasteners.
I don't know what you mean, "something happened to my 367?"

**geotex1** · 03-09-2020, 03:49 PM

Aluminum and stainless steel are not friends. Galvanic reaction will ensue with that combination. Carbon steel and aluminum are perfectly fine together. If you don't believe this engineer, just check a compatibility chart. You can touch up the rusting rivet with POR-15, Eastwood Encapsulator, or similar. These can be had in a silver color to be less noticeable too. Steel rivets can be had in zinc plated and some sizes in yellow chromate too. When I had fold downs, I replaced all the rivets after a few seasons with one I powder coated myself so that could be an option if you or a friend had the capability.

**Canyonlight** · 03-09-2020, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by MichiganMarty

Same type but different. These are all riveted together, My 337 was bolts and nuts for the construction, not sure about the aluminum tread fasteners.
I don't know what you mean, "something happened to my 367?"

Ah - OK.....glad I have bolts (I think !) Our steps look almost as good as new yet. My first thoughts on your 367 was that delivery from the factory to the dealer occurred during winter and the messy and damaging road salt/treated times and possibly this started a process.

Dan

**MichiganMarty** · 03-11-2020, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by geotex1

Aluminum and stainless steel are not friends. Galvanic reaction will ensue with that combination. Carbon steel and aluminum are perfectly fine together. If you don't believe this engineer, just check a compatibility chart. You can touch up the rusting rivet with POR-15, Eastwood Encapsulator, or similar. These can be had in a silver color to be less noticeable too. Steel rivets can be had in zinc plated and some sizes in yellow chromate too. When I had fold downs, I replaced all the rivets after a few seasons with one I powder coated myself so that could be an option if you or a friend had the capability.

geotex1:

How is it the boating industry uses stainless steel fasteners (screws & nuts) all the time on aluminum boats. I have a aluminum boat that is 35 years old with stainless steel fasteners and the joints look look like new when I have to separate them?

Also, I had a 1973 Plymouth Duster (back in the day) that was cancer ridden and the tops of the fenders were rotted out which allowed mud or other liquids to hit the windshield. Not caring about appearance, I put aluminum flashing on the top and pop riveted it place. This was winter time and lots of snow, ice, salt. I needed to be able to see! Inside of three days, there were holes eaten through the aluminum. According to the charts, this should not have happened with steel and aluminum.

One more "also": Back when General Motors built heavy duty trucks, they had a option for aluminum frames. These frame rails were separated by ferrous cross-members. GM specified a non conductive paste be applied between every joint, and under every fastener or brackets that contacted the aluminum frame to inhibit galvanic reaction. We referred to it as "Baby poop". This was specified by the scientists GM had on staff in our laboratory at the Pontiac Michigan based GM Truck & Coach Labs.

Please note: I am not trying to argue with you, I want to learn. So please, teach me.

**geotex1** · 03-11-2020, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by MichiganMarty

geotex1:

How is it the boating industry uses stainless steel fasteners (screws & nuts) all the time on aluminum boats. I have a aluminum boat that is 35 years old with stainless steel fasteners and the joints look look like new when I have to separate them?

Also, I had a 1973 Plymouth Duster (back in the day) that was cancer ridden and the tops of the fenders were rotted out which allowed mud or other liquids to hit the windshield. Not caring about appearance, I put aluminum flashing on the top and pop riveted it place. This was winter time and lots of snow, ice, salt. I needed to be able to see! Inside of three days, there were holes eaten through the aluminum. According to the charts, this should not have happened with steel and aluminum.

One more "also": Back when General Motors built heavy duty trucks, they had a option for aluminum frames. These frame rails were separated by ferrous cross-members. GM specified a non conductive paste be applied between every joint, and under every fastener or brackets that contacted the aluminum frame to inhibit galvanic reaction. We referred to it as "Baby poop". This was specified by the scientists GM had on staff in our laboratory at the Pontiac Michigan based GM Truck & Coach Labs.

Please note: I am not trying to argue with you, I want to learn. So please, teach me.

In general, boats and those GM frames (my oldest friend is a 3rd generation GMC dealer and heavy trucks are their thing and where I worked my youth) use sacrificial anodes. There are also many grades of stainless steel created by changes in composition (higher carbon stainless), phase change (crystallinty from heat treatment or how cooled), and hi-tech alloying. Aluminum has a myriad of alloys and an enormous range of surface treatments too. Carefully selected in combination, you can mitigate the cell. However, I'd bet you a cold one at camp that if I were to pull a stainless fastener out of your aluminum boat, you would be alarmed to see what lies under the head or the nut! Unlike oxidation decay - what we perceive as the orange iron oxide of plain carbon steel, which forms outside to inside, galvanic corrosion forms within the contact surfaces of the dissimilar metals and you may never see a thing other than shiny, like new surfaces until the day of catastrophic failure! Then you'll find an eroded cross-section and white-gray powdery residue (in the case of stainless and aluminum).