Adding a 3rd battery

**frank4711** · 03-29-2020, 04:41 AM

Here it is .... seems good did 1800 mile trip no issues https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 also used this to tighten https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ... thanks later Frank

**Malco1** · 03-29-2020, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by frank4711

Here it is .... seems good did 1800 mile trip no issues https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 also used this to tighten https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ... thanks later Frank

Thanks,
Is there enough ground clearence?

**frank4711** · 03-29-2020, 10:28 AM

Yes plenty ... carrier is level with hitch no drop ... later Frank

**Lance Glogowsky** · 03-29-2020, 12:01 PM

Since batteries are the topic again, I need to confirm a few things from the experts out there. I received my online Safari ION Lithium batteries from Costco recently. (If you read the previous thread on Adding a Third Battery, you know I ended up with 5 Lithium batteries shipped to my house by mistake. Two will be returned) My questions:
1. I will be ordering a PD converter/ charger (for lithium batteries) to replace my WFCO one and will ensure to stay with the same Amperage as the WFCO. By staying with the same amperage, confirming I don't need to worry about changing any wire cable sizes?
2. Confirming the reason to go with a converter / charger with a higher Amperage rating would be for the batteries to charge faster? I have not dived into solar panels yet, but I'm guessing higher Amperage would be beneficial for solar panels to charge your batteries quicker or help keep them charged?
3. Will the converter / charger amperage rating have anything do to with the Lithium batteries being charged to their optimal level, maybe except for the time it takes.
4. Does it matter how many batteries are installed, when it comes to the converter / charger. In my case, if I installed 1 or 3 Lithium batteries, I would still purchase the same type PD converter / charger, with the same amperage rating as my WFCO one?

Forgive me if some of my verbiage is off or some questions are a little repetitive.
Thanks for the help.

Lance

**SolarPoweredRV** · 03-29-2020, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by Lance Glogowsky

Since batteries are the topic again, I need to confirm a few things from the experts out there. I received my online Safari ION Lithium batteries from Costco recently. (If you read the previous thread on Adding a Third Battery, you know I ended up with 5 Lithium batteries shipped to my house by mistake. Two will be returned) My questions:
1. I will be ordering a PD converter/ charger (for lithium batteries) to replace my WFCO one and will ensure to stay with the same Amperage as the WFCO. By staying with the same amperage, confirming I don't need to worry about changing any wire cable sizes?
2. Confirming the reason to go with a converter / charger with a higher Amperage rating would be for the batteries to charge faster? I have not dived into solar panels yet, but I'm guessing higher Amperage would be beneficial for solar panels to charge your batteries quicker or help keep them charged?
3. Will the converter / charger amperage rating have anything do to with the Lithium batteries being charged to their optimal level, maybe except for the time it takes.
4. Does it matter how many batteries are installed, when it comes to the converter / charger. In my case, if I installed 1 or 3 Lithium batteries, I would still purchase the same type PD converter / charger, with the same amperage rating as my WFCO one?

Forgive me if some of my verbiage is off or some questions are a little repetitive.
Thanks for the help.

Lance

Responses:

1, You should go with the highest amperage Lithium Converter (Charger) you can find. The WFCO Converter is pretty low amperage 55 amp (as I recall). I would recommend 85 - 95 amps. It is easy to upgrade your wiring while you are installing the new converter (should be two wires coming out of the Converter going direct to your 12v fuse panel.

2, Yes, you want to charge your Lithium batteries fast. One of the big advantages of Lithium batteries is that they can accept a fast charge and can accept the fast charge till they are almost full. Your future Solar Panels do not have any bearing on your Converter purchase, your Solar panels will charge at the highest rate they can, based on available Sunshine and that rate will constantly fluctuate.

3, The Lithium batteries will accept a charge until they are full, then the Converter (or Solar Charge Controller) will reduce the energy being sent to the batteries and go into a "Float Mode" that just maintains the battery voltage. If you have a big draw (like leveling the coach or opening the slides) then the Converter will increase the amount of energy being sent to the battery until it reaches the "Float" voltage again.

4, Yes, it matters what size (amperage) Converter you choose. If you have one battery your Converter will charge your battery in "X" amount of time, if you have 3 or 4 batteries it will take 3 times as long. Think of electricity like water, if you have a 1/4 inch hose trying to fill a 1 gallon container it will take some time, if you take that same hose and try to fill a 5 gallon bucket, it is going to take a lot more time. Additionally, if you were to use a garden hose to fill that gallon jug it would take almost no time.

You can think of your Converter like a hose that you are using to fill up gallon jugs, the higher the amperage (bigger your hose), the quicker you can fill up your gallon jugs (Lithium batteries) 3 jugs in this case.

You can PM me if you need any clarification.

**Lance Glogowsky** · 03-31-2020, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by SolarPoweredRV

Responses:

1, You should go with the highest amperage Lithium Converter (Charger) you can find. The WFCO Converter is pretty low amperage 55 amp (as I recall). I would recommend 85 - 95 amps. It is easy to upgrade your wiring while you are installing the new converter (should be two wires coming out of the Converter going direct to your 12v fuse panel.

2, Yes, you want to charge your Lithium batteries fast. One of the big advantages of Lithium batteries is that they can accept a fast charge and can accept the fast charge till they are almost full. Your future Solar Panels do not have any bearing on your Converter purchase, your Solar panels will charge at the highest rate they can, based on available Sunshine and that rate will constantly fluctuate.

3, The Lithium batteries will accept a charge until they are full, then the Converter (or Solar Charge Controller) will reduce the energy being sent to the batteries and go into a "Float Mode" that just maintains the battery voltage. If you have a big draw (like leveling the coach or opening the slides) then the Converter will increase the amount of energy being sent to the battery until it reaches the "Float" voltage again.

4, Yes, it matters what size (amperage) Converter you choose. If you have one battery your Converter will charge your battery in "X" amount of time, if you have 3 or 4 batteries it will take 3 times as long. Think of electricity like water, if you have a 1/4 inch hose trying to fill a 1 gallon container it will take some time, if you take that same hose and try to fill a 5 gallon bucket, it is going to take a lot more time. Additionally, if you were to use a garden hose to fill that gallon jug it would take almost no time.

You can think of your Converter like a hose that you are using to fill up gallon jugs, the higher the amperage (bigger your hose), the quicker you can fill up your gallon jugs (Lithium batteries) 3 jugs in this case.

You can PM me if you need any clarification.

Thank you for the information. Yes, my WFCO is 55 amps. PD equivalent for a lithium system is 60 amps. My wiring is #6 to the panel (about 2' away) and then to the battery compartment (about 5' away). If I went with an 80 amp converter, would I have to upgrade to a larger wire from my convertor to the panel, and how much larger, which doesn't look like a big deal, and then also to my batteries, which appears a little trickier? PD recommends staying with the same amperage as the original converter. How much faster do you think the charging rate would be with 3 lithium batteries for having a 60 amp converter / charger compared with an 80 amp converter / charger?

**JColeman** · 03-31-2020, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by Lance Glogowsky

Thank you for the information. Yes, my WFCO is 55 amps. PD equivalent for a lithium system is 60 amps. My wiring is #6 to the panel (about 2' away) and then to the battery compartment (about 5' away). If I went with an 80 amp converter, would I have to upgrade to a larger wire from my convertor to the panel, and how much larger, which doesn't look like a big deal, and then also to my batteries, which appears a little trickier? PD recommends staying with the same amperage as the original converter. How much faster do you think the charging rate would be with 3 lithium batteries for having a 60 amp converter / charger compared with an 80 amp converter / charger?

Assuming 100% efficiency (not gonna happen) then 3 batteries at 60 amps is 20 amps each per hour. 80 amps would be ~26.6 amps each per hour. If you are recharging a battery drop of 100 aH (amp hours) from overnight use then it will take about an hour less to charge the batteries with the 80 amp charger.

That difference was not worth the effort for me when we installed our PD 60 amp converter. You will need a significant solar package to charge higher than 60 amps.

**SolarPoweredRV** · 03-31-2020, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by Lance Glogowsky

Thank you for the information. Yes, my WFCO is 55 amps. PD equivalent for a lithium system is 60 amps. My wiring is #6 to the panel (about 2' away) and then to the battery compartment (about 5' away). If I went with an 80 amp converter, would I have to upgrade to a larger wire from my convertor to the panel, and how much larger, which doesn't look like a big deal, and then also to my batteries, which appears a little trickier? PD recommends staying with the same amperage as the original converter. How much faster do you think the charging rate would be with 3 lithium batteries for having a 60 amp converter / charger compared with an 80 amp converter / charger?

Your wiring size (#6 ) is wholly adequate for 80 amps based on your short runs (less than 10 ft.

If you wanted to upgrade to #4 wire that is entirely your choice, however there is no real reason to upgrade. If your runs were longer, then I would recommend upgrading to #4 wire.

The thing to remember when charging Lithium batteries, is that they can absorb as much "juice" as you can give them (up to a point). So let's try some simple math: you will have a total of 300 amps that you need to charge if you have drained your battery bank, let's also say that you don't change out your Converter. With the WFCO Converter you could add ~ 50 amps to your batteries in one hour (because of various losses in the system, charging rates are not 100%), so it would take you a little more than 6 hours to charge your battery bank to full. Now you have upgraded your converter to the 80 amp Converter the math is 300/75 = approximately 4 hours. These numbers are theoretical and may have no bearing on the real world.

If it were me, I would get the 80 amp Converter, and I would upgrade to # 4 wire from the Converter to the Panel and #4 wire to my battery bank. However, if the wiring looked to be a pain, I would also be comfortable staying with the #6 wire.

**Lance Glogowsky** · 04-01-2020, 01:39 AM

Originally Posted by SolarPoweredRV

Your wiring size (#6 ) is wholly adequate for 80 amps based on your short runs (less than 10 ft.

If you wanted to upgrade to #4 wire that is entirely your choice, however there is no real reason to upgrade. If your runs were longer, then I would recommend upgrading to #4 wire.

The thing to remember when charging Lithium batteries, is that they can absorb as much "juice" as you can give them (up to a point). So let's try some simple math: you will have a total of 300 amps that you need to charge if you have drained your battery bank, let's also say that you don't change out your Converter. With the WFCO Converter you could add ~ 50 amps to your batteries in one hour (because of various losses in the system, charging rates are not 100%), so it would take you a little more than 6 hours to charge your battery bank to full. Now you have upgraded your converter to the 80 amp Converter the math is 300/75 = approximately 4 hours. These numbers are theoretical and may have no bearing on the real world.

If it were me, I would get the 80 amp Converter, and I would upgrade to # 4 wire from the Converter to the Panel and #4 wire to my battery bank. However, if the wiring looked to be a pain, I would also be comfortable staying with the #6 wire.

I don't know what I was thinking when I said 5' between the batteries and panel, maybe line of sight. Actually closer to 10' maybe 12' after feeding the 4 gauge wires under the basement from the battery compartment up to the panel. Possibly 10' if I placed the batteries on the right side of the front compartment closer to the bus bar connector. Right now, my 4 lead acid batteries are on the left side of the front compartment with my inverter mounted on the right side. The batteries on the left side help offset a little of the weight of the fridge, oven, cabinetry, etc on the right side of the trailer. The trailer leans slightly to the right while driving. GD says this is normal because of the extra weight on the right side. I have heard other 303 owners questioned the slight leaning. I'll kick around the #4 wire upgrade. Otherwise, I might go the 60 amp route or 70 amp charger / converter if that would work. Thank you for all your help.

**Lance Glogowsky** · 04-01-2020, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by JColeman

Assuming 100% efficiency (not gonna happen) then 3 batteries at 60 amps is 20 amps each per hour. 80 amps would be ~26.6 amps each per hour. If you are recharging a battery drop of 100 aH (amp hours) from overnight use then it will take about an hour less to charge the batteries with the 80 amp charger.

That difference was not worth the effort for me when we installed our PD 60 amp converter. You will need a significant solar package to charge higher than 60 amps.

Thank you for the info.