Questions in the midst of the Wuhan Covid-19 Pandemic

[WhittleBurner]

One of the medical persons reporting on the virus was on meet the press this morning. His concern is that this shut down is going to kill more people than this virus ever will. Women are not getting pap smears surgeries are not being performed. With this lock down depression will set in and their will be a lot more suicides. In general people are not getting the medical help they should be. Read an article yesterday about a pregnant women that developed complications. Should have been able to treat and not be a problem. She was refused because it wasn't covid related. She ended up dyeing. How far should we go with this lock down. Seems like there needs to be some kind of balance to protect everybody.

[surfintom]

One of the medical persons reporting on the virus was on meet the press this morning. His concern is that this shut down is going to kill more people than this virus ever will. ....With this lock down depression will set in and their will be a lot more suicides.....How far should we go with this lock down. Seems like there needs to be some kind of balance to protect everybody.

Hopefully - and it seems like it's happening already - the lock downs are easing. We can start to return to some normal activities. Elective surgeries are happening here.

My father-in-law is in Freedom Village in Bradenton - assisted living - still locked down - no cases so far. How is your life there?

We have a place in Naples. There was a fire around Naples last week. You are probably aware. Were you affected by smoke?

We flew to Colorado April 18 with 20 other folks. I think the planes are getting more full every week.

[Wicked ace]

One of the medical persons reporting on the virus was on meet the press this morning. His concern is that this shut down is going to kill more people than this virus ever will. Women are not getting pap smears surgeries are not being performed. With this lock down depression will set in and their will be a lot more suicides. In general people are not getting the medical help they should be. Read an article yesterday about a pregnant women that developed complications. Should have been able to treat and not be a problem. She was refused because it wasn't covid related. She ended up dyeing. How far should we go with this lock down. Seems like there needs to be some kind of balance to protect everybody.

Do you recall who was expressing that concern? I ask because I just watched the replay on a local affiliate and I don't remember seeing it. I do remember seeing Dr. Inglesby of John Hopkins University and I consider what he has to say carries a lot of weight.

[Da Breeze]

I'm pretty sensitive about having my liberties trampled on, especially by the government. With that said, I honestly don't feel those liberties have been compromised by my being asked to help prevent the spread of a communicable disease. I feel more comfortable staying home as much as possible, and wearing a mask when I'm in crowds. It seems prudent for me to protect my health, and also to protect the health of others should I be infected and asymptomatic.

Thanks dryfly,

Refreshing to hear some simple, common sense and consideration for other human beings.

What I cannot figure out WHY it is called Common Sense, when it appears to be so UNCOMMON ???

Michael

[Bill G]

Thanks dryfly,

Refreshing to hear some simple, common sense and consideration for other human beings.

What I cannot figure out WHY it is called Common Sense, when it appears to be so UNCOMMON ???

Michael

Michael, I am confused also. Why do we drive on a parkway and park in a drive way? Why doe we call them "apartments, when they are al together? Why does the pilot always tell us to prepare for our "initial" decent? How many tries is it going to take?

[WhittleBurner]

Do you recall who was expressing that concern? I ask because I just watched the replay on a local affiliate and I don't remember seeing it. I do remember seeing Dr. Inglesby of John Hopkins University and I consider what he has to say carries a lot of weight.

The person I was talking about from Meet the Press this morning was Peter Navarro the White House economic adviser. What he said makes a lot of sense You can see the short tempers from people when you do have to go out to get something.

[Wicked ace]

The person I was talking about from Meet the Press this morning was Peter Navarro the White House economic adviser. What he said makes a lot of sense You can see the short tempers from people when you do have to go out to get something.

Peter Navarro is not hardly a medical person by any stretch. So how would he know about any of those things? He is saying what needs to be said to misdirect and do CYA for faults and missteps that he is a part of. He was a bag of wind when at CNBC, often misspeaking or acting as a person of knowledge when he had no clue. He hasn't been there in a long time, I wonder why?
I severely limit my outings any more but for the most part I have found people to be conscientious, polite and considerate. Maybe you need to move?

[WhittleBurner]

Hopefully - and it seems like it's happening already - the lock downs are easing. We can start to return to some normal activities. Elective surgeries are happening here.

My father-in-law is in Freedom Village in Bradenton - assisted living - still locked down - no cases so far. How is your life there?

We have a place in Naples. There was a fire around Naples last week. You are probably aware. Were you affected by smoke?

We flew to Colorado April 18 with 20 other folks. I think the planes are getting more full every week.

I didn't see the smoke unless it was mixed in with the clouds. Other than what is going on at the nursing homes it doesn't seem to be to bad around here. We haven't been going out at all unless we need to get some food. It is nice to see them starting to open things back up. From talking to people I don't know how much longer it could go before you started to see problems between people because of short tempers. You get a good feeling from people of being happy to finally be able to do something. Back home in MICH. things aren't going to well yet and there is still a shut down on almost everything. Doctors and a patient are suing the governor over the shut down. The sheriff and judge in Perry MICH. have refused to go after a salon owner for opening while the shut down is in place. They feel the governor has overstepped herself with the extension without the legislator approval. We aren't going home to just sit in our house all day. In Manatee county here in Florida there have been 849 cases of covid 19 with 81 deaths I'm sure most of those were from nursing homes. In our zip code there have been 17 cases. If you go to Floridahealthcovid19.gov you can get all of the statistics. They didn't list assisted living but you can find out by the zip code for your area.

[JColeman]

There seem to be some misconceptions that are being accepted here. I will attempt in my feeble way to address some of them through the lens of "science". My understanding of the term science is that it is a constant questioning and reevaluation of both known and unknown circumstances by analyzing data, making assumptions, testing those assumptions against the data, revising what the word "known" means and repeat.

Assumption: Wearing a mask helps prevent the spread of the virus.

This is both true and false. Anything less than a discipline of properly worn, fresh or freshly cleaned and virus proof N95 masks does nothing to prevent you from getting CV19 from someone else. Generally, masks are effective in limiting the spray range of particulate in your breath, coughs and sneezes and thereby reduce your chances of infecting someone else. This is a minor inconvenience and I have no issues with compliance with this courtesy to others in public spaces. While of dubious scientific value overall, it may have some significant value as as a social focus point, hopefully but not yet proven as positive. I also have grave concerns about attempts to shame people for having other opinions such as not wearing masks.

Assumption: Social distancing helps reduce the spread of the virus.

True, to some extent but there is really no possibility of fully preventing the spread of an airborne respiratory disease while allowing any human interaction at all. This is again a common sense issue. I am looking for the science that makes it dangerous for a lone surfer but not for a gaggle of press. I find the logic of keeping big box stores open while closing small retail as unsafe specious at best and challenge anyone to show me the "science" behind that decision. I care less about the politics but cannot find the science behind shutting down cancer screenings and treatments as non-essential and abortions which typically have larger windows of decision opportunity are essential. How is closing a salon that is licensed and regularly inspected by the health department less safe than my mechanic's diesel shop's bathroom? Please demonstrate the science behind these decisions. The Mayor of LA has indicated he will keep the city under lockdown until there is a 14 day period with zero CV19 deaths. Is there any scientific study that I can read that supports this decision?

A clear unintended consequence of determining essential and non-essential medical treatments has been the crippling of our health services. While a few area hospitals have been overwhelmed and required some assistance, the facts are that the impact of hospitalizations have either been over estimated in the first place or well flattened by policy choices. Take your pick, I don't care. But where is the data today that supports laying off and furloughing healthcare workers rather than opening up the healthcare system to it's normal capacity.

Assumption: We must follow the recommendations of the scientists because a) they are smarter than us and b) they are experts.

This may or may not be a fair assumption but for the sake of the discussion, let's assume it's true. The models that we have been presented with since the beginning of this pandemic have been based upon data that has been significantly flawed. Whether it is the data that is incorrect, lies coming out of China, or the different methods being utilized to classify a CV19 hospitalization for case numbers and fatalities in our own country, it is a fair statement that all data is not created equal and not all comparisons are equivalent.

Good scientific method requires constant reevaluation of the facts. Every single verifiable data point is indicating that all of the previous models we have used to combat this disease through social control has been significantly flawed. Estimates for ventilator requirements, ICU beds and fatalities have all failed to meet their expectations. OK. Lucky, but decisions based on flawed data. Happens all the time. The trick is to stop following the flawed hypothetical data models and create better ones out of actual data.

Assumption: If you want to go back to work or reopen your business you are either stupid or selfish.

Honestly, if you have read this far, you probably know that isn't true, even though it is parroted in memes and by zealots. There are genuine medical and psychological damages being inflicted on people who cannot get it in their minds that they are not allowed to feed their family, or go to church or visit with friends in their yards. Generational family businesses are closing and will never open again. Statistics are showing an unfortunate but undeniable rise in the trends in domestic violence, depression, suicide and divorce over the last three months.

My point, long overdue, is that there is no single truth here. Those of you who make blanket statements about how everyone else should act have not fully analyzed the data in its total societal context. Those of you who believe you act in a vacuum and are not concerned with your neighbor's well being are also ignoring the context.

Conclusion: What is the answer?

For me it's simple. I believe that most people are good and they will do the right thing when given an opportunity to do so. I also look at history and believe that the government at any level trying to enforce dubious social policy has been a failure in every civilization known to man. So I will wear a mask in public for a while longer, wash my hands and respect your wishes to stay at home if that is what you would like to do. I also support the immediate opening of any business that can take reasonable sanitary precautions and to allow Americans to go to work as they deem appropriate. I am capable of deciding whether I want to go to that business or not by myself. I am capable of evaluating data without a talking head on TV telling me what I think...from either side.

[Jerryr]

I didn't see the smoke unless it was mixed in with the clouds. Other than what is going on at the nursing homes it doesn't seem to be to bad around here. We haven't been going out at all unless we need to get some food. It is nice to see them starting to open things back up. From talking to people I don't know how much longer it could go before you started to see problems between people because of short tempers. You get a good feeling from people of being happy to finally be able to do something. Back home in MICH. things aren't going to well yet and there is still a shut down on almost everything. Doctors and a patient are suing the governor over the shut down. The sheriff and judge in Perry MICH. have refused to go after a salon owner for opening while the shut down is in place. They feel the governor has overstepped herself with the extension without the legislator approval. We aren't going home to just sit in our house all day. In Manatee county here in Florida there have been 849 cases of covid 19 with 81 deaths I'm sure most of those were from nursing homes. In our zip code there have been 17 cases. If you go to Floridahealthcovid19.gov you can get all of the statistics. They didn't list assisted living but you can find out by the zip code for your area.

Gary,

Our Home is in Mill Creek, East Bradenton, about 4 miles East of I75 off of SR 64. But we’ve been hunkered down at our cabin in Fort Drum, Fl about 120 miles further East https://www.ihammock.net/ . It is in OKEECHOBEE county, but 25 mikes north of the “city”. OKEECHOBEE only has 5 people hospitalized and so far 0 deaths.

This week we came back to Bradenton to do a few doctor/dentist visits. Today my daughter and grandson came to visit us. My 16 year old grandson hasn’t been out of the house in over 6 weeks. I made him wear a Surgical mask and wife and I wore some old N95 masks we had stored from when wife worked as an RN.

We’re going back to our country cabin in Ft Drum tomorrow. We feel much safer there. Lots of open space with gated community of 3600 acres. Our cabin is on 3 acres looking out the window to see deer, rabbits, armadillos etc.

We have our RV plugged into 50 amps next to the cabin. Every couple of days we go to the RV and camp out.