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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by That 1 Ron View Post
    Have you test driven that truck? I would worry there’s something going on with it since it hasn’t sold. That seems like a long time to sit on the lot for a fairly popular vehicle. It would have to be steeply discounted for me to consider buying it.

    That’s good news on the 2400! We’re excited to camp in ours and be up off the ground!
    I haven't tested this particular truck as it's at a dealer that's 100 miles away from where I live. I looked at the payload numbers in Ford's brochure and that number of 3480 makes no sense especially with a diesel engine. I'm going to have the dealer verify it, but if it will be around 2000lbs it makes no sense for me to go that route as it will be only slightly better than my F150.

  2. #12
    Site Sponsor Jerryr's Avatar
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    Just as a point of reference, I ordered a loaded 2019 F-350 Lariat Ultimate Diesel back in July 2018 just as production of model year started. It was delivered around September 2018. MSRP was 74,015. $66,128 with a $3,000 PCO. My F-350 has a payload of 3,523 lbs.

    The deal you are looking at is not a great deal.
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by luke79 View Post
    I haven't tested this particular truck as it's at a dealer that's 100 miles away from where I live. I looked at the payload numbers in Ford's brochure and that number of 3480 makes no sense especially with a diesel engine. I'm going to have the dealer verify it, but if it will be around 2000lbs it makes no sense for me to go that route as it will be only slightly better than my F150.
    Have them send you a picture of the sticker for that particular truck. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I really doubt a 250 diesel has a payload in the 3400 lbs rating.

    And yes, you're right, it's pretty easy to get a 250 with very similar payload to a 150. In fact, I'd bet it's possible to get a 250 with LESS payload than a 150 (stripped 2 passenger 150 vs diesel supercab platinum 250). The 250 is a "ratings queen", it exists because it gets under some of the rating limits for increased taxation/insurance/etc (in some areas); in effect, it's a de-rated 350. All fine, but if you care about "legal payload" a 250 is almost certainly the wrong truck to buy, get a 350 or 450.

    If a dually works for you/can work for you, I'd definitely look hard at them. Gets you scads of payload, options (if you upgrade your trailer), safety (they simply pull better, less sway, less danger of a tire failure) and, for me, peace of mind (priceless) when hauling a heavy trailer long distances. It hurt to trade a brand new truck, but it was the right decision for me puling a 351M. You can obviously get away without a dually for your rig, but, if you can live with it day to day, I'd really look at one hard, you'll love it for towing. Honestly, I live in the country, and out here, it's really almost no hassle at all. Parks fine at Lowes and Tractor Supply. It's a PITA to take into the city, but my wife's car is here if I need to do that (and we almost never do, given COVID, it's been exactly "never" that we've gone to any city at all).

  4. #14
    Big Traveler Wicked ace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overtaxed View Post
    Have them send you a picture of the sticker for that particular truck. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I really doubt a 250 diesel has a payload in the 3400 lbs rating.

    And yes, you're right, it's pretty easy to get a 250 with very similar payload to a 150. In fact, I'd bet it's possible to get a 250 with LESS payload than a 150 (stripped 2 passenger 150 vs diesel supercab platinum 250). The 250 is a "ratings queen", it exists because it gets under some of the rating limits for increased taxation/insurance/etc (in some areas); in effect, it's a de-rated 350. All fine, but if you care about "legal payload" a 250 is almost certainly the wrong truck to buy, get a 350 or 450.

    If a dually works for you/can work for you, I'd definitely look hard at them. Gets you scads of payload, options (if you upgrade your trailer), safety (they simply pull better, less sway, less danger of a tire failure) and, for me, peace of mind (priceless) when hauling a heavy trailer long distances. It hurt to trade a brand new truck, but it was the right decision for me puling a 351M. You can obviously get away without a dually for your rig, but, if you can live with it day to day, I'd really look at one hard, you'll love it for towing. Honestly, I live in the country, and out here, it's really almost no hassle at all. Parks fine at Lowes and Tractor Supply. It's a PITA to take into the city, but my wife's car is here if I need to do that (and we almost never do, given COVID, it's been exactly "never" that we've gone to any city at all).
    My F150 has a sticker payload of 2461#, a bit more than the dozen or so F250 diesel and Ram 2500 Cummins I saw on the lots two years ago. The cost of a gas F250 even with a new 7.3L upgrade and similarly equipped isn't much more than the MSRP of my F150. My reservation was the ride quality. Of all 3/4 ton trucks I drove the Ram with self leveling rear air suspension was the best ride. Still at the end of the day rode like a 3/4 ton truck. Saying all that I would seriously look at an F250 or even f350 with the 7.3 if I were looking again.
    When dealing ask the dealer for invoice pricing and start from there. Many will not budge off that but if you are looking to add things like running boards, tonnau cover, bed liner, mud guards, of wetherproof floor mats they are negotiable. 7% below MSRP is about as low most dealers will go on price. Incentives are from Ford and they are sticklers about the either/or choice on incentives or 0% financing but it doesn't hurt to push. A dealer would rather make a sale than have you walk out the door. Ask the dealer what incentives are offered however Do Not give a phone number or address to a dealer before you begin negotiation. They can easily look you up in their "Smart Vincent" system and see what incentives you qualify for. You end up in effect negotiating against yourself.
    2018 F150 XLT 301a, Screw, 4x4, HDPP, Max tow, Andersen Ultimate w/ Curt Double Lock hitch.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wicked ace View Post
    My F150 has a sticker payload of 2461#, a bit more than the dozen or so F250 diesel and Ram 2500 Cummins I saw on the lots two years ago. The cost of a gas F250 even with a new 7.3L upgrade and similarly equipped isn't much more than the MSRP of my F150. My reservation was the ride quality. Of all 3/4 ton trucks I drove the Ram with self leveling rear air suspension was the best ride. Still at the end of the day rode like a 3/4 ton truck. Saying all that I would seriously look at an F250 or even f350 with the 7.3 if I were looking again.
    When dealing ask the dealer for invoice pricing and start from there. Many will not budge off that but if you are looking to add things like running boards, tonnau cover, bed liner, mud guards, of wetherproof floor mats they are negotiable. 7% below MSRP is about as low most dealers will go on price. Incentives are from Ford and they are sticklers about the either/or choice on incentives or 0% financing but it doesn't hurt to push. A dealer would rather make a sale than have you walk out the door. Ask the dealer what incentives are offered however Do Not give a phone number or address to a dealer before you begin negotiation. They can easily look you up in their "Smart Vincent" system and see what incentives you qualify for. You end up in effect negotiating against yourself.
    Having had a 150, 250 and now 450.. I can say, with all sincerity, this is a big reason why people have no care/respect for the numbers. My 150 and 250 had very similar payload capacities (3.5L in the 150, 6.7 diesel in the 250), but, anyone with 1/2 a brain could look at/drive/load those 2 trucks and would immediately tell you "the 250 is WAY more truck". The numbers are make believe on a 250, saying a 150 and 250 can carry the "same"? Even a cursory understanding of mechanics and a quick look under the vehicles would tell you "that's ridiculous". Anyway..

    The 250 was a significantly harder ride than my 150. The 450 is pretty much the same as the 250 (my wife actually thinks it's less harsh, I'm not sure I agree, but it might be because I can keep all the tires aired down so far because it's got so much excess carrying capacity, on the 250 I needed them with max air in them to support my load).

    I agree with the suggestions of looking at gas. Your trailer isn't that heavy, and the gas/big gas engine should tow it fine. Engine braking is nice though on the diesel; again, to my previous question, it all depends how much you're gonna tow it. Doing 2-3K miles a year on pretty flat ground? Don't even consider the diesel, IMHO. Doing 10K a year on big hills (towing)? You should strongly consider the diesel. Pulling a lot (not just the RV) of things around on a regular basis? Again, good argument to look at the diesel.

    7% off MSRP would be about right, in my experience, for a current model year truck. Holdover from last year, I'd think you'd get more. I got more than 10% off my 450 and it wasn't a holdover (but was the end of the model year, if you ordered, you would have gotten a 2020). Given the current dates, a 2019 model is close to 6 months old now, so I'd be looking for 15% or so off MSRP. Don't know if I'd get it, but if I can buy a 2020 (with the 10 speed and the ability to use blind spot assist towing a 5er) for 7% off or a 2019 for 10% off? No way I'm going with the 2019, that's at most what, 1500 or so difference in price? You'll make that up in trade in, and you get to drive a truck with the better tranny and trailer controls. Now, if the 2020 is 7% off and the 2019 is 15% off, now I'm getting interested in the 2019 again, I'd like to have a 10 speed, but maybe not 3-4K in value to me.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overtaxed View Post
    Having had a 150, 250 and now 450.. I can say, with all sincerity, this is a big reason why people have no care/respect for the numbers. My 150 and 250 had very similar payload capacities (3.5L in the 150, 6.7 diesel in the 250), but, anyone with 1/2 a brain could look at/drive/load those 2 trucks and would immediately tell you "the 250 is WAY more truck". The numbers are make believe on a 250, saying a 150 and 250 can carry the "same"? Even a cursory understanding of mechanics and a quick look under the vehicles would tell you "that's ridiculous". Anyway..

    The 250 was a significantly harder ride than my 150. The 450 is pretty much the same as the 250 (my wife actually thinks it's less harsh, I'm not sure I agree, but it might be because I can keep all the tires aired down so far because it's got so much excess carrying capacity, on the 250 I needed them with max air in them to support my load).

    I agree with the suggestions of looking at gas. Your trailer isn't that heavy, and the gas/big gas engine should tow it fine. Engine braking is nice though on the diesel; again, to my previous question, it all depends how much you're gonna tow it. Doing 2-3K miles a year on pretty flat ground? Don't even consider the diesel, IMHO. Doing 10K a year on big hills (towing)? You should strongly consider the diesel. Pulling a lot (not just the RV) of things around on a regular basis? Again, good argument to look at the diesel.

    7% off MSRP would be about right, in my experience, for a current model year truck. Holdover from last year, I'd think you'd get more. I got more than 10% off my 450 and it wasn't a holdover (but was the end of the model year, if you ordered, you would have gotten a 2020). Given the current dates, a 2019 model is close to 6 months old now, so I'd be looking for 15% or so off MSRP. Don't know if I'd get it, but if I can buy a 2020 (with the 10 speed and the ability to use blind spot assist towing a 5er) for 7% off or a 2019 for 10% off? No way I'm going with the 2019, that's at most what, 1500 or so difference in price? You'll make that up in trade in, and you get to drive a truck with the better tranny and trailer controls. Now, if the 2020 is 7% off and the 2019 is 15% off, now I'm getting interested in the 2019 again, I'd like to have a 10 speed, but maybe not 3-4K in value to me.
    So the dealer verified and payload numbers and they are 2228. Significantly lower then what their web site lists. I may skip this truck and seriously look at F350/3500 configurations.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by luke79 View Post
    So the dealer verified and payload numbers and they are 2228. Significantly lower then what their web site lists. I may skip this truck and seriously look at F350/3500 configurations.
    That's about right, IIRC, that's about where my 250 came in on payload. But, honestly, the difference between a 250 and 350 basically comes down to a spring and a sticker. If you're in love with this truck, can get it at a good price and add airbags to it, it'll almost certainly tow better than a 350 SRW would (or the same). The 250/350 distinction is "almost nothing" in most/many cases. If you want more safety, get DRW. The only thing that a 350 is really buying you is a "better sticker". It's very little/no difference until you get to DRW.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overtaxed View Post
    That's about right, IIRC, that's about where my 250 came in on payload. But, honestly, the difference between a 250 and 350 basically comes down to a spring and a sticker. If you're in love with this truck, can get it at a good price and add airbags to it, it'll almost certainly tow better than a 350 SRW would (or the same). The 250/350 distinction is "almost nothing" in most/many cases. If you want more safety, get DRW. The only thing that a 350 is really buying you is a "better sticker". It's very little/no difference until you get to DRW.
    My understanding is that the difference between F250 and F350 is the rear axle. The axle in the rear on the F350 is supposedly a lot more heavy duty. And the suspension in the rear also gets you an extra leaf spring or maybe an overload spring.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wicked ace View Post
    My F150 has a sticker payload of 2461#, a bit more than the dozen or so F250 diesel and Ram 2500 Cummins I saw on the lots two years ago. The cost of a gas F250 even with a new 7.3L upgrade and similarly equipped isn't much more than the MSRP of my F150. My reservation was the ride quality. Of all 3/4 ton trucks I drove the Ram with self leveling rear air suspension was the best ride. Still at the end of the day rode like a 3/4 ton truck. Saying all that I would seriously look at an F250 or even f350 with the 7.3 if I were looking again.
    When dealing ask the dealer for invoice pricing and start from there. Many will not budge off that but if you are looking to add things like running boards, tonnau cover, bed liner, mud guards, of wetherproof floor mats they are negotiable. 7% below MSRP is about as low most dealers will go on price. Incentives are from Ford and they are sticklers about the either/or choice on incentives or 0% financing but it doesn't hurt to push. A dealer would rather make a sale than have you walk out the door. Ask the dealer what incentives are offered however Do Not give a phone number or address to a dealer before you begin negotiation. They can easily look you up in their "Smart Vincent" system and see what incentives you qualify for. You end up in effect negotiating against yourself.
    We had a Ford Lariat and I used to test drive Dodge trucks. We feel our GMC 3500 Denali has the better ride. I have been in the SLT and it's ride wasn't as nice. We have had people comment about how nice of a ride the Denali has even in the back seat, loaded or unloaded.
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by luke79 View Post
    My understanding is that the difference between F250 and F350 is the rear axle. The axle in the rear on the F350 is supposedly a lot more heavy duty. And the suspension in the rear also gets you an extra leaf spring or maybe an overload spring.
    There's a lot of debate on if that's true or not. It may be a mixup in the documentation. Either way, the 3.5" axle, if you look at the specs, isn't the limiting factor on towing for a 250, it's rated far higher than the tires/rims. Tires/rims are really the limiting factor on both the 250 and 350 (SRW). Which, of course, is why the DRW models exist.

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