New to RV

[glmflyer]

Thanks. I am still researching options. Very helpful replies.

[DaveMatthewsBand]

Thanks. I am still researching options. Very helpful replies.

Good luck. Post pics of your dually one ton when you get it.

: )


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Roll With The Changes]

Once again, I'm late to the conversation. I have to say that this was quite calm for a weight rating/tow vehicle thread. So, to the point... I agree with almost all of what has been said, but I can add another perspective.

In reference to tires and single point or cascading failures, I'm am an aviation guy so, according to popular belief, we're all about safety. I design and build specialized equipment for the utility helicopter world; and I fly what I build. I think a lot about fail safe and safe life (although I've never heard the term). In any complex machine (like a truck), there are some parts that are fail safe and some that are safe life (it's kind of hard to make a redundant frame rail). So in the end, it comes down to the operator (driver or pilot) understanding how the machine works and what it's limitations are. Regarding tow vehicles, do what your comfortable with, as long as you understand it.

Now the liability part and the question of whether it actually happens: Here's another aviation story. There was a documented case of an accident that was clearly pilot error. The pilot sued the airplane manufacturer for faulty design. The airplane was built 50 years earlier to the standards of the day and still, the verdict was almost enough to put the manufacturer out of business. I bring this up because when it comes liability, nobody is safe. People are actually being sued for using the wrong pronoun. So when it comes to choosing tow vehicles, do what you think is right as long as you understand what you're doing. If you wreck it and hurt somebody, you're probably gonna get sued even if you did everything right.

[BobKilmer]

Good luck. Post pics of your dually one ton when you get it.

: )


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LOL Very subtle!

[WhittleBurner]

Once again, I'm late to the conversation. I have to say that this was quite calm for a weight rating/tow vehicle thread. So, to the point... I agree with almost all of what has been said, but I can add another perspective.

In reference to tires and single point or cascading failures, I'm am an aviation guy so, according to popular belief, we're all about safety. I design and build specialized equipment for the utility helicopter world; and I fly what I build. I think a lot about fail safe and safe life (although I've never heard the term). In any complex machine (like a truck), there are some parts that are fail safe and some that are safe life (it's kind of hard to make a redundant frame rail). So in the end, it comes down to the operator (driver or pilot) understanding how the machine works and what it's limitations are. Regarding tow vehicles, do what your comfortable with, as long as you understand it.

Now the liability part and the question of whether it actually happens: Here's another aviation story. There was a documented case of an accident that was clearly pilot error. The pilot sued the airplane manufacturer for faulty design. The airplane was built 50 years earlier to the standards of the day and still, the verdict was almost enough to put the manufacturer out of business. I bring this up because when it comes liability, nobody is safe. People are actually being sued for using the wrong pronoun. So when it comes to choosing tow vehicles, do what you think is right as long as you understand what you're doing. If you wreck it and hurt somebody, you're probably gonna get sued even if you did everything right.

That's like the couple who sued GM after they bought one of their motor homes many years ago. They set the cruise and both went back to take a nap. They won.

[DaveMatthewsBand]

That's like the couple who sued GM after they bought one of their motor homes many years ago.
They set the cruise and both went back to take a nap. They won.

When Tesla starts building RV's this will actually be quite plausible.

: )

[Overtaxed]

I bring this up because when it comes liability, nobody is safe. People are actually being sued for using the wrong pronoun. So when it comes to choosing tow vehicles, do what you think is right as long as you understand what you're doing. If you wreck it and hurt somebody, you're probably gonna get sued even if you did everything right.

Yes. Which is why I've always said, the goal shouldn't be "am I legal" (because outside of a few corner cases, it doesn't matter) the goal should be "am I less likely to have an accident in this truck than this other truck". More tires, bigger brakes, engine braking, collision avoidance technology, maintenance, etc. I would feel much safer driving a 2021 F250 that's overweight, for example, than a 2010 F350 that's right at the limits, the technology is better, the machine is newer and less likely to have maintenance issues. Now, a new F250 or 10 year old dually? I'm not sure, I'd have to think about that one, I think I'd prefer the dually, because I think even without forward collision alert, blind spot detection, breaking pre-assist and all the other tech in a new 250, I might be safer in a 10 year old dually. I don't know that, not at all, but that's my supposition.

You have to remember, when you're talking about liability cases, you're talking about accidents that are your fault. The way to avoid them is to not be at fault. And perhaps here a dually does help because, I do think there are situations where you could be found at fault where you wouldn't be if you weren't overweight. But, TBH, those are also corner cases. If you rear end someone, you're at fault pretty much 100% of the time. If someone rear ends you, gonna be pretty hard for them to say you're liable because your truck weighed too much. If you lose control of the RV and take out a few other cars and hurt some people, you're at fault; again, no matter what you're driving.

The real questions here are civil liability which I hold isn't impacted in the majority of possible RV accidents. Yes, there are some possible corner cases you can dream up (it's early and I'm having trouble thinking of one) where you wouldn't be a fault in a F450 but would in a F250 in exactly the same accident situation. The real magic of the F450 is avoiding an accident that you could not with a F250.

The other question is criminal, and this one is just clear as mud. Are you criminally charged if you're in a F250 involved in an accident (regardless of fault) that's overweight? I think this one is a real mess to figure out, because we apply these standards differently all over the place. Let's say, for example, you're rear ended sitting at a red light and you're drunk out of your mind. Well, you're not going to be at fault in that accident, but you're still going to jail/losing your license. Now, same situation, except this time, instead of being drunk, you're sitting a the stoplight with bald tires, too dark tint, no windshield wipers and a headlight out. A while list of things that are illegal and could get you tickets, but also a whole list that has no relation at all to the accident. You going to jail/getting a ticket in that case? Well, you COULD I guess, but, it would be highly unlikely. And yes, the person who hit you, in civil court, could argue that you're responsible for the accident because of your bald tires, but that's a real hard argument to make when the car you hit isn't moving.

Sadly, there really is, at least not in my eyes, a "real answer" to this beyond "doing everything by the book decreases your chances of winding up in court" (criminal) and "not getting in an accident decreases your chances of winding up in court" (civil). I think those statements are clearly true, but I (and I don't think anyone) has any idea "how much" they decrease your chances. Does a dually decrease your chances of an accident by 1% or 75%? IDK. I don't think anyone does. But I can tell you, from personal experience, a dually sure does tow nice, from the "butt in seat" perspective.

[glmflyer]

A lot of good points. I to am in the aviation business. I fly full time for a private company. I have been flying for the past 32 years. I always like the error on the side of caution. Safety is extremely important. The old saying is there are old pilots and there are bold pilots but, no old bold pilots. I tend stay well under the max of anything.

I am headed to look at a new Laramie 3500 this afternoon. I would like to pose a question to the group. One of our local shops can install and air bag system on my existing 2019 Laramie 2500 including B&W slider hitch for around $3000. They claim it will increase my pay load by 5000lbs. My tires are F rated Nito Ridge Grappler 35x 12.50 R20. Load range 1650lbs at 80 psi. Still SRW and I would much prefer a DRW setup. But...…….

Comments from the group?

Thanks.

[Overtaxed]

A lot of good points. I to am in the aviation business. I fly full time for a private company. I have been flying for the past 32 years. I always like the error on the side of caution. Safety is extremely important. The old saying is there are old pilots and there are bold pilots but, no old bold pilots. I tend stay well under the max of anything.

I am headed to look at a new Laramie 3500 this afternoon. I would like to pose a question to the group. One of our local shops can install and air bag system on my existing 2019 Laramie 2500 including B&W slider hitch for around $3000. They claim it will increase my pay load by 5000lbs. My tires are F rated Nito Ridge Grappler 35x 12.50 R20. Load range 1650lbs at 80 psi. Still SRW and I would much prefer a DRW setup. But...…….

Comments from the group?

Thanks.

Tires are going to be the weak link. I think yours are rated between 3500-4000/tire, which is pretty good, but nothing an upfitter is going to do other than adding more wheels to increase that.

Things like airbags do, of course, add payload capacity in the "real world" but, in the "legal world" the only thing that matters is the sticker. Nothing you can do will change that, you could actually do a DRW conversion and go to 19.5's, won't matter from a "legal" perspective because that's entirely based on the "the sticker". There are some upfitters that can change the sticker for you, but, from what I hear, it's NOT cheap.

[BobKilmer]

Tires are going to be the weak link. I think yours are rated between 3500-4000/tire, which is pretty good, but nothing an upfitter is going to do other than adding more wheels to increase that.

Things like airbags do, of course, add payload capacity in the "real world" but, in the "legal world" the only thing that matters is the sticker. Nothing you can do will change that, you could actually do a DRW conversion and go to 19.5's, won't matter from a "legal" perspective because that's entirely based on the "the sticker". There are some upfitters that can change the sticker for you, but, from what I hear, it's NOT cheap.

Agree completely with Overtaxed. The big difference would be what you can meet in the real world versus the legal world. That becomes a personal decision on the importance of having that sticker.