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  1. #21
    Big Traveler Grandesigner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntr70 View Post
    220RK has been discontinued for a few years.

    Glass is an R1, double the glass, go to R2. There is no "gas" vacuum bonded into these dual pane windows, just 2 panes of glass.
    Thanks for that info. So are the frames much stronger or do they feel more substantial than the single panes?
    Same question for DMB...

  2. #22
    Long Hauler DaveMatthewsBand's Avatar
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    Relfection 150 Series

    Quote Originally Posted by Grandesigner View Post
    Thanks, I'll have to look up that floorplan...

    When I asked the salesman about the dual pane windows he said they simply double the glass, with no vacuum space between the layers. Not sure that made much sense. Do you know the R values for both kinds of windows?
    And how do they feel? The single pane seem kind of fragile and like a security risk, with the larger ones easily opened from outside.

    There’s tons of threads here from people that will tell you double pane windows much a huge difference both in the lower of any amount of condensation and much less noise getting through.
    Unfortunately a lot of dealers and sales people just aren’t educated in this area and those who are, want to steer you away from double paned windows because their cheap trailers don’t have them.

    We caravanned for over a year up and down the West coast with another couple with a Reflection (without them) and our windows always felt closer to inside temps than outside temps on both hot and cold days.

    Definitely worth the small cost. Some people bitch about the weight but I say carry less crap.
    Our windows aren’t “heavy” but definitely feel more solid than our caravan friends’ single paned windows.

    Our windows are THREE TIMES THICKER due to the air space in between. The air in between is also sealed.

    Also, if I can DOUBLE my R-value in a window or a wall, that’s substantially better, not a little better.

    (See attached photo)

    And yes (like I said) the 220RK was only produced in 2018 and 2019, but there’s still some to be found at dealerships in new condition if you’re interested in a small lightweight fiver, which incidentally will tow far better than any bumper pull and has twice the outside storage.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by DaveMatthewsBand; 07-12-2020 at 11:43 AM. Reason: Because someone answered a Q obviously directed at me
    Resistance is Not Futile, It's Voltage Divided by Current.


  3. #23
    Big Traveler Grandesigner's Avatar
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    I think that pic speaks volumes...thanks. It would appear to be more than doubling of the R value and great for sound and security.
    Since we will have to order one, that is definitely an option to include. Prices out at $1129...
    I checked the floor plan and read a review about the 'chase lounge' not being a comfortable sleep. We are looking for 2 good sleeping surfaces so maybe a U shaped table would fit that bill, if not a bunk bed. Problem with the bunk model seems to be very reduced cargo capacity.
    Last edited by Grandesigner; 07-12-2020 at 06:32 PM.

  4. #24
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    The double pane windows and the bedroom AC were the only options that we added upon purchase. Very happy with them.
    2019 F350 CCLB 6.7
    2020 Reflection 268BH

  5. #25
    Big Traveler Grandesigner's Avatar
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    On a side note, I see that several folks have newish 3/4 or 1 ton diesel trucks to pull these '1/2 ton' units. Nothing succeeds like wretched excess but wouldn't a newer gasser do the job as well?
    I currently have a y2k F250 powerstroke which will work just fine, but when I look for a modern truck I would hope it doesn't have to be a diesel...thoughts?

  6. #26
    Big Traveler dryfly's Avatar
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    I'm pulling my 150 Series with an '05 Cummins Turbo Diesel. It has dry weight of 7500 lbs and pin weight of 1300 unloaded. It does a great job but I sure don't feel I'm over-trucked.

    I just don't buy into these 1/2 ton truck pullable trailers. I'm sure on flat land things are fine, but it feels so much better pulling a light trailer with a big truck.

    I've really enjoyed my diesel truck and have had virtually no problems with it through the years. But, considering the weight of the 150 series trailers, if I were buying again today I would sure look at a 3/4 ton gasser. Diesel options in trucks have gone through the roof. Fuel is no longer a bargain like it was 20 years ago. Maintenance and repairs on diesels are considerably more than gas trucks. The benefits of diesel trucks have been ruined by the emission add-ons and the changing of the formulation of the fuel.

    With all this said, if someone is towing a big trailer or traveling extensively, diesel is still the way to go. Personally, I don't do either.

  7. #27
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    There are hundreds of threads here and more elsewhere on gas vs diesel. Opinions often border on religious fever.

    The short answer is that gas or diesel makes only a few hundred pounds difference in payload. Most thoughtful opinions are that payload is the limiting factor in what 5er you can pull.

    Personally I bought my truck not certain which rig we would get, so I allowed for the heaviest one. But I also wanted plenty of capacity to take that rig up the steep, high mountains over rough roads in summer heat where we like to camp. Southern and eastern hills just don't require a much power.

  8. #28
    Big Traveler Grandesigner's Avatar
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    Yeah, I've been a diesel believer since 2001, but the new 7.3 gasser is impressing lots of folks. Living at 5000 ft and camping at 10000 ft enjoys forced induction for sure. But the lower cost and better payload of gasser bears more thought now.
    Part of me says get diesel 1 ton just in case we go big, but we are obviously going smaller now. Our 3 slide 33 foot 5W is just too big for the kind of camping we have enjoyed for decades. We could probably get away with a 3/4 ton gasser easily.
    Last edited by Grandesigner; 07-13-2020 at 09:42 AM.

  9. #29
    Long Hauler DaveMatthewsBand's Avatar
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    Relfection 150 Series

    Quote Originally Posted by dryfly View Post
    I'm pulling my 150 Series with an '05 Cummins Turbo Diesel. It has dry weight of 7500 lbs and pin weight of 1300 unloaded. It does a great job but I sure don't feel I'm over-trucked.

    I just don't buy into these 1/2 ton truck pullable trailers. I'm sure on flat land things are fine, but it feels so much better pulling a light trailer with a big truck.

    I've really enjoyed my diesel truck and have had virtually no problems with it through the years. But, considering the weight of the 150 series trailers, if I were buying again today I would sure look at a 3/4 ton gasser. Diesel options in trucks have gone through the roof. Fuel is no longer a bargain like it was 20 years ago. Maintenance and repairs on diesels are considerably more than gas trucks. The benefits of diesel trucks have been ruined by the emission add-ons and the changing of the formulation of the fuel.

    With all this said, if someone is towing a big trailer or traveling extensively, diesel is still the way to go. Personally, I don't do either.
    I agree with some of this but even though a Reflection 150-Series is marketed for half tons (gassers really) your driving experience is still going to be dramatically better towing one with a diesel. I say this as someone who never towed in his life with a gasser but caravanned for over a year with another couple who also had a Reflection and one of the most powerful gas-powered 3/4 ton trucks, the 6.4 Hemi.
    We moved every week to two weeks and traveled from Quartzite through California, along the 101 up through Oregon and Washington then into Canada then back down through Eastern Washington, Oregon, Nevada and back to Arizona. We did this route twice, so LOTS of mountain passes and steep rocky shoreline roads. I paid $30k for a used 2011 F250 diesel. He bought a brand new Ram.
    He couldn’t keep up on any hill, up or down. We talked on a CB the whole trip and his Hemi would be screaming at 5,700 rpm down and not much lower going up but he was barely able to stay above 40-45mph up or down and had to use his truck and trailer brakes far more often than he was comfortable with, whereas I hardly ever touched my brakes and I routinely did 60-65 up and 55 down the steep grades. I don’t like steep hills and I wasn’t ever totally comfortable towing on them but I guarantee you I would have been far less comfortable towing with his truck. His comfort level wasn’t a high priority their first year on that route. By the middle of the second trip he had traded his Hemi 2500 Ram in for a Cummins 3500 SRW and said he would never go back.
    You don’t have to have a 20k# rig to enjoy the massive benefits of towing with a diesel.
    Our rig is 9k# his is 11k# and I can’t imagine towing it through those mountains with a half ton that weighs 2500# less and has no exhaust brake and half (if that) the torque. There are those that tow heavy with “not enough truck” and they say “it tows fine”. Personally, my comfort and stress level won’t allow “fine”.


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    Last edited by DaveMatthewsBand; 07-13-2020 at 11:11 AM.
    Resistance is Not Futile, It's Voltage Divided by Current.


  10. #30
    Big Traveler Grandesigner's Avatar
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    Yup, hills is where diesel shines and high elevation in general. Maybe a gasser with forced induction? It would still weigh less than a turbo diesel...
    The new 7.3 with a 10 speed auto might be surprising. Anybody here have that yet?

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