TT vs 5er safety

[Txfivver]

I too get a kick out of the "paper ratings" on the 350's and 450's and how silly they are. The 450 tows better in every way and I say that from experience. I went from a '19 F350 dually to a '20 F450 and towing the same 16560 pound Solitude the 450 is a surprisingly better experience. The 350 needed airbags to sit level when hooked up, the 450 is still slightly tail high without bags when hooked to the same trailer. Same springs on both?? I don't think so. the bigger brakes are a huge improvement as well as the turning ability. The 450 is dinged payload rating wise to keep it out of the class 4 weight category and thus higher registration fees. I agree we should all try to keep to our truck's max ratings but I'd much rather run a 450 at max rating than a 350 at it's higher max rating.

[Overtaxed]

I too get a kick out of the "paper ratings" on the 350's and 450's and how silly they are. The 450 tows better in every way and I say that from experience. I went from a '19 F350 dually to a '20 F450 and towing the same 16560 pound Solitude the 450 is a surprisingly better experience. The 350 needed airbags to sit level when hooked up, the 450 is still slightly tail high without bags when hooked to the same trailer. Same springs on both?? I don't think so. the bigger brakes are a huge improvement as well as the turning ability. The 450 is dinged payload rating wise to keep it out of the class 4 weight category and thus higher registration fees. I agree we should all try to keep to our truck's max ratings but I'd much rather run a 450 at max rating than a 350 at it's higher max rating.

The really damaging thing is that if they are just going to "make up" the ratings (as they are when they paper rate these things to 10K (250) or 14K (450)) it takes away the ability to know what's actually safe? Is a 250 really a 350SRW? Should I just use those numbers instead for the real "safe load"? Is a 450 pickup really the same as a 450 chassis? Can I use the 450 chassis ratings? We know the numbers on a 250 and 450 are make believe (and maybe the 350 as well, again, that's the problem we don't know what's actually real anymore), so, what numbers SHOULD I use? I'm inclined to believe that my 450 pickup is mechanically the same (in the areas where it matters) to a 450 chassis cab which has a 16,500 GVWR, so I suspect that's the right answer. Similar to the 250/350SRW discussion, they are basically the same truck (in the areas that matter) so the 350 GVWR is probably the actual "safe" limit for a F250 as well. But who knows?! If they're going to make up the ratings, it puts us, the consumer, in the area of trying to divine the actual capabilities of the vehicle. But yes, the 450 being rated to carry less than a 350 is probably the best example of this because that clearly makes absolutely NO sense mechanically/technically.

[Jerryr]

Txfivver and Overtaxed,

What are the door tag payloads for your 450s?

I’m very seriously considering a 2020 or 2021 F-450 Platinum without sunroof to replace my F-350 Lariat SRW diesel with 3523 lbs of payload. Ford has agreed to buy back my 350 under Florida Lemon Law. I’m just waiting for financial numbers. One option is any other model Ford replacement truck. 450s are real scarce so I may need to special order it. If Ford continues to drag their feet with offer letter I may need to order a 2021 since order banks open for 2021s on 8/17. That would put delivery date mid November.

There are a couple of inbound 2021 F450s on the way to Florida dealers but dealers are not obligated to release them for LL replacements unless they were the original selling dealership.

[Malco1]

I just read a thread where a poster said he got a 38' TT because a 5er of that length would put him over payload capacity. That post started me thinking, what's actually safer here? Let's take 2 relatively similar trailers, both 40' long, both 15K, one a 5er that puts you overweight on the truck and another a TT that keeps you "in spec" for the truck. Which would you rather tow? Which would you feel safer towing?

I know the answer for me; give me the overweight 5er any day of the week (as long as we're talking "reasonable" overweight here, not a 44' toy hauler on a 150!). Let's say a 5er that's 14K GVWR (~2.5K pin weight, which is going to be over for most 250 class trucks) vs a TT that's the same GVWR. If both weigh about the same, which do you think would be safer? I remember a lot of threads in the past saying "get a TT instead" (not here, elsewhere), but, to me, I'm really not sure you've increased safety at all in that situation. I've towed plenty of trailers in my day, and I've had plenty of hairy experiences with trailers. Once I moved to goosenecks/5er's, I've had exactly 0 "hair" from any trailer, even when overloading a 250 with a 351M.

I'm just not sure the advise makes sense to me. Suddenly your truck can tow more by using a less stable/secure connection? If anything, I'd think that airbags or some other "beef up the truck" would be safer (forgetting about legalities here).

It's true that a TT will of the same weight as a 5er will use less payload, because the % tongue weight is less. A 5er is much more stable on the road and much safer and easier to tow than a TT

[Bill's 315rlts]

I have a 38 ft 315rlts and going down the road with my crew cab and 8 ft bed silverado 2500 I am 60 ft long. I have had no issues getting anywhere so far I've wanted to go from coast to coast. I bought the TT because the 5th wheel with the same floor plan was heavier and it would have meant a new truck. After 3+years I have never been sorry. Plus with my wife's leg issues no steps is a bonus.

[csjag1]

Concerning the issue of safety of a TT vs a 5W, safety begins with the TV driver, correct connecting the trailer to the TV and respecting all of the limitations of one's equipment. I, like Bell above, have a 315 and pull it with a CC Chevy 2500, but with the standard bed. We have traveled with this rig, from Washington state to Florida with no issues at all concerning safety or drive-ability. We use a good WD hitch of proper weight rating to connect our 315 and have never felt any unsafe condition. Also like Bill, we have had our rig for 3+ years and have no regrets for choosing this TT. We have knee issues as well and the fewer steps, the better. I would buy the same model again without hesitation.

[Philwa]

We have driven coast to coast three times in the last three years through all types of weather conditions with our 32 foot TT and our 2500 hemi. We have never felt unsafe or had a situation where we regretted our choices. To paraphrase others on this post “ it’s the driver not the rig”.

[KB5SET]

I have a 297RSTS TT which is 33 feet and the gross weight of the TT is 9800 pounds.
I am pulling with a Chevy 2500 HD crew cab.
I bought the trailer new and the dealer installed and set up the hitch.
I went home loaded up and took off on my first adventure.
I had all sorts of issues with towing. The tail was low and the nose was high.
I set up the load levelling hitch correctly and upgraded my tires, and all those issues went away.
(When one of the Westlakes separated I didn't bother with the warranty. They are too dangerous for me.)
Went camping about 2 weeks ago and met a guy towing a 5er with a F-150 with bags. He broke a rear spring and damaged his rear axle. He was trying to find a service facility and having no luck. He was afraid to drive it to the repair shop. We moved before he got repaired.

Recently driving thru Houston TX my trailer brakes shorted out. I had to stop the trailer with the truck brakes only in traffic. The weight of the 3\4 ton and the larger brakes saved the bacon. The brake pads on that truck are much larger than a half ton.

I can't advise on the 5er vs TT but I just wanted to tell you that I would not advise overloading the truck and make sure your hitch is properly adjusted while the TT is loaded, if you go with the TT.

Good luck.

[Walaby]

After owning both TT's and 5ers, I believe the 5th wheel is inherently more safe and stable than the travel trailer. Regardless of in or out of capacities.

So, yes, I agree that a slightly overweight setup with a 5er is still inherently safer than the similar sized TT setup that is within all spec's.

Mike

[Marcot1]

I went from an 2001 Excursion (F250 essentially) towing a 35’ Passport ultra lite to an F450 and a 381M.

This is our first 5th wheel but the difference in stability is amazing even doing 70 down the highway.

The ex was never out of control but I never felt comfortable doing more than 60 on a divided highway. More commonly we would do 55 or so to keep things comfortable.