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09-24-2020, 08:10 AM #31
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09-24-2020, 10:38 AM #32
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Well, either way something drastic will have to happen! Tesla has been in business for over 17 years and has not come close to making a profit off electric vehicles, in fact they have lost billions upon 10's of billions of dollars! Probably never been a company stay in business that long and lost that much money! Much of the environmental is never seen in this country, much like the computer industry! Over in China, the chemicals from the electronic industry has decimated cities, water and country side! It comes from both sides, producing the product, and eliminating the tons and tons of electronic waste! Many toxic chemicals used in producing them that many do not even realize! Same thing with electric vehicles! They may someday make it, but it will be after my death, many years from now before they become main stream! We were told in the auto business that within 5 years all cars would have electric brakes, that was 20 years ago! Never happened because nobody could get them to work reliably! Not GM, Ford, Toyota, and others that tried. Seems to be the same with electric vehicles, the technology is just not there!
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09-24-2020, 02:34 PM #33
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How can you say that nobody can get them to work? Tesla is producing ~ 500,000 Electric vehicles this year and I don't see any articles that say they only run 10k miles and they need to be replaced. In fact quite the opposite, there is a company called Tesloop in California that offers a shuttle service between LA and Las Vegas, they have several Teslas approaching 500,000 miles with very little maintenance. If you are interested read this article outlining their operating expenses ( https://www.tesloop.com/blog/2018/7/...737-kilometers ).
By-the-way, Tesla has shown a profit in 4 out of the last 4 quarters and they are out selling Mercedes Benz, BMW, Lexus and all other manufacturers in the premium mid-sized luxury class. Tesla Model 3 is also the ninth best selling car in the US in 2019 (according to Goodcarbadcar.net) and will most assuredly move up on the list in 2020.
Also, I owned a Chevy Volt that was driven 99% on electricity and that car was good and reliable. GM was definitely able to get the Electric propulsion in that car to work reliably (BTW, the Volt is 100% electric propulsion, the engine only runs a generator).
The transition to Electric Vehicles is already under way in Europe and the UK with Norway leading the world in EV sales as a percentage of cars sold. Unfortunately, the United States will be late to the party with regard to the Electric Vehicle revolution (oh well, if you can't lead at least you can be a follower).David and Peggy
2019 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.7L Diesel, Dually, Long Bed
Running with 20k Reese Goosebox (Love It) and Ford Factory "Puck" system.
Stopping with 8,000 lb Disc Brakes and Titan Hydraulic over Electric Brakes system.
Powering all this fun with 1200 Watts of Solar, two Tesla, Model S, battery modules, 24 volt Victron Inverter.
2018 Solitude 310 GK
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09-26-2020, 01:03 PM #34
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Nothing about distance while towing 9 or 10,000 pounds. Electric small trucks just aren't going to cut it untill they can at least keep up with their gasoline counterparts. Who wants to tow for 200 miles and than wait for 3 to 7 hours to recharge, when you can tow for 200 miles and fill up with gas in about 3 minutes and continue on. On another note I'm sorry to hear that California is mandating that all new vehicles must be electric, including trucks, in the next 10 or 12 years. Nancy Pelosis nephew, Gavin newsome, really has his head up his.
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09-26-2020, 01:30 PM #35
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
Honestly the engineers aren't clueless as to what the design team specs are. They know that a pickup that can only to for a hundred miles won't sell to the majority of pickup owners. If it won't sell, they won't do it. Well, not usually. Haha
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09-26-2020, 02:41 PM #36
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Yep I agree nothing shows what capabilities are yet. The biggest problem is the nut job governor in California that has mandated ALL new vehicles must be non gasoline or diesel powered by the year 2035. Right now the only reason they are even doing this is because the government has mandated at least 2% of their sales be fully electric vehicles. It doesn't matter what the people want anymore. And unfortunately what California does tends to spread, like a cancer, to other parts of the country
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09-26-2020, 03:12 PM #37
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I agree with you in general, but, when it comes to towing big RV's, that future is way out there. I posted on another thread talking about the math behind it, but there are "issues" to deal with that aren't as simple as "better batteries". It takes an immense amount of power to pull something like my 351M around, and, even if you have an awesome way to store that power (think, a huge, low cost battery), there's the problem of "filling it". The Telsa semi is what you should be looking at when thinking "I wonder it it can tow my 20K trailer", not the pickup truck. And the semi is what you want to be looking at, with 500-1000 WH of power on board. That's what it's going to take to get reasonable distances between charging for someone hauling an RV, a semi and diesel truck towing an RV are much closer in "power consumption" (MPG) than a F150 and my F450 towing.
And when you start talking about 100's of KWs of power, well, now you've just got some intrinsic limits in the system. Think about your house, probably with 200A service run to it. Running full clip, that's ~40KW of power, assuming prefect efficiency and nothing else using house power, you're looking at charge times between 15-30 hours, best possible case, to get something with a 500-1000KWh battery in it. On the semi, they estimate that the 1000KWH battery will get you 500 miles, let's say you can get 750 pulling an RV, that's 500 miles, and then 30 hours of charging, assuming you can plug back in at home with 200A service. Plugging in at a campground? Well, as you can guess, it's 4X as long to charge, again, assuming you're not using anything in your RV that takes power. Best case, several days, worst case, a week or so.
The logistics problems when talking about 100's of KWh of electric are immense. Yes, for semis, it might work, at least day cab semis, because they can pull in tons of power to a single place and charge them all at very high speed (think a substation on site though, we're talking that kind of power to charge a few hundred of these things overnight). A typical substation, call it 30,000,000 watts, 30,000KWs, could charge 30 of the semis from empty to full (assuming 1,000KWh battery) in 1 hour. Now we're talking! But we're also talking about a substation here! If RV's and tow vehicles do become highly electrified, you're going to need something like that in the RV park itself to keep up.
Short haul, yes, I think we'll see electric over the next 10 years or so (think UPS local delivery). Long haul (which, if you use your RV like I do, that's basically the category you're in), I don't see it anytime soon. We just don't have the end user infrastructure and, even if it popped up tomorrow, I can't believe that it wouldn't greatly overtax the electrical grid to have this kind of new power draw hitting it this hard. Most people use 1,000 to 2,000 KWH a MONTH in their house, a semi will chug that much electric in a day.
Don't hold your breath for a replacement for your TV or diesel pusher engine in an RV. Yes, I may eventually see it in my lifetime, and those younger than me probably will see it, but it's going to be "niche use" for a very, very long time when you just look at the immense power requirements towing with an electric vehicle demands.
They know that a pickup that can only to for a hundred miles won't sell to the majority of pickup owners.Last edited by Overtaxed; 09-26-2020 at 03:17 PM.
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09-26-2020, 04:34 PM #38
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As far as the primary use of trucks, I guess I was talking around here. Not sure of everywhere. It seems like trucks are strapped to trailers primarily. Or people just drive a car. But again, that's around here, myself included. And I doubt I would ever try and charge a vehicle at a campground. It seems like you can hardly trust their grids to run an air conditioner. Haha. Also they are "estimating" a 53 minute full charge at a mega charger and a 30 minute charge to 80% from empty on the semi. And that's with 500 mile range. As far as my camping habits, sadly, I don't go that far away. Maybe 300 miles. And by far I don't get to use it every weekend. You see, I'm a diesel mechanic. Haha. And there is always 4 trucks that need to go right now. Maybe that's where my bias comes from. Eternal emissions problems and rods hanging out the sides of blocks.
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09-26-2020, 04:55 PM #39
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The first official comment from any manufacturer on towing capacity was recently released by Rivian. During their Long-Hill Towing tests in the Arizona heat, their Engineers were quoted as saying that you loose about 50% of the range (the tests were done pulling 11,000 pounds up/down a very steep and long hill).
When you drive an EV on a long trip, you usually don't take the time to recharge to 100%, this has to do with how the batteries accept a charge. Usually, you would charge up to 80 - 85% which should be enough to get you to the next (or second) charging station. Lithium Ion batteries can accept a very high rate of charge up to the 80/85% level before they begin to taper off. With the Fast Charging Stations being capable of high currents (up to 350 kwh), your Electric Pickup should charge up in 30 to 40 minutes, just enough time to grab some lunch and for everybody to use the comfort station. At 300 - 350 kwh charge rate you are putting energy into your batteries at a rate of over 1,000 miles per hour.
By-the-way, if you are towing a trailer, you are not going to have a 3-minute fuel stop (studies have shown that most gas station stops are 20 minutes, curb to curb).David and Peggy
2019 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.7L Diesel, Dually, Long Bed
Running with 20k Reese Goosebox (Love It) and Ford Factory "Puck" system.
Stopping with 8,000 lb Disc Brakes and Titan Hydraulic over Electric Brakes system.
Powering all this fun with 1200 Watts of Solar, two Tesla, Model S, battery modules, 24 volt Victron Inverter.
2018 Solitude 310 GK
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09-26-2020, 05:08 PM #40
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Bedroom Sconce Light
Today, 06:30 PM in Electrical System and Wiring