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Thread: Level 5th wheel when towing?
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02-06-2021, 10:27 PM #41
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[QUOTE=Tkgolden89;322665]Everyone - thanks in advance for the replies and help - newbies when it comes to 5th wheels so we're still learning. My apologies in advance if I missed something searching for related posts.
We think we're about to settle on a 2020 303rls. Will be towing with a 2016 F350 Platinum 4x4 CCSB (diesel). Pin weights and towing capacities are in range...what I didn't realize before I purchased the TV (used) was how high the truck is relative to fifth wheels. Top of rails (at the tailgate) to ground measures 60 1/4". (truck appears to be stock in the back and leveled in the front) The fifth wheel on the lot appears to be level and the front of the unit measures 61" to the ground (bottom of the front section where the kingpin is attached to the body).
Still in process of selecting a hitch - would like to install a turnover ball and go with something that will attach to the ball so that when not towing I can clear the bed. I think between hitch setting and how high or low the kingpin is set I can achieve 6 inches of separation between the rails and the 5th wheel...but I'm not sure how level I will be. So to the questions:
- How critical is it that the 5ver is level when towing? Out of level would seem to place more weight/strain on the rear axles and tires...is there a bandwidth of 'close enough' that deemed acceptable?
- Thoughts or recommendations on hitch? I've been leaning toward either the AUH or B&W non-slider...
- Has anyone lifted their 5ver to help compensate for that? Seems like LCI sells a lift kit that can add 2 inches.
- options that I haven't thought of? Took a bath trading in the last truck and really don't want to swap for a dually...
Thanks for the help!!![/QUOTE
I would like to share my experience regarding the purchase of my 2017 F350 and hooking to my 2006 Alpenlite 5th wheel with pin weight of 2400#. I had the same fear as you. Will I tow to high in front. I did the research about lowering the rear blocks thinking I would have to, I did the same measurements as you. It wasn't looking good. I finally said to heck with it. Installed my superglide hitch, filled diesel tanks, loaded the RV for travel then hooked up the 5th wheel and wow!! It wasn't looking to bad at all. More measurements ensued. Final outcome showed I was towing my 5th wheel 1.25 inches high in front. I had 5.75 inches clearance between bedrails and RV. My pin weight was enough to drop the trucks rear enough so I didn't have to change blocks which the local ford dealer refused to do anyway. Another experience from my friend Ken in Sacramento. Ken has the 2016 F350, feared the same problem as you and I with his 5th wheel, BUT, he went and had his blocks changed to the 2" blocks before even hooking up. Got his 5th wheel hooked up and he was to low so he added onboard adjustable airbags. I believe had he of waited to hookup his pin weight would have leveled out the unit and would have not needed the airbags for leveling. So....get the hitch you want, get your RV totally loaded with all the necessities and then some, fill you diesel tanks, throw the dog in the back seat, wife in the front and then hookup...then if you need to make adjustments you'll know exactly how much to change and come up with a safe solution as to what needs to change. Safe Travels!!2020 Solitude 372WB
2017 F350 Superduty 4x4, Heavy Duty Tow Package
2900 Superglide Hitch, MORryde Rubber Pinbox
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02-08-2021, 08:54 AM #42
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I recently leveled my truck. I understood that my choice would have towing implications. Prior to the 2 1/2" level, my truck had 3" of rake and was very close to level with the 303 connected. The truck settled 2 1/2" or 3" when hooked up and never touched the overloads. The trailer was a bit nose high. Of course, now that the front of my truck is 2 1/2" taller, it sits nose high when hitched. This past weekend, I took the truck and trailer to a level parking lot to take careful measurements. With the trailer connected, I put enough air in the airbags to get the truck perfectly level. This left me with 7"+ of bed clearance at the front and 6 3/4" at the tailgate. All is good there. My B & W hitch is set to the middle height. The trailer was very nose high at that point. I then used leveling blocks to create a platform to pull the trailer tires on to, mimicking the results of lifting the trailer suspension. At 2 3/4" of "lift", the trailer was just a touch nose high. This was confirmed with both a tape measure and bubble level. While nosing around under the trailer, I noticed that all four of the leaf springs appeared to be somewhat flat...especially on the street side. That is typical of the 303. The street side of my trailer weighs 700 pounds more than the curb side when unloaded. I'm sure that is only made worse when the pantry and refrigerator is full.
So, in a couple days, I have an appointment with a trailer repair shop. I intend to have them build a sub frame that both lifts the trailer by 3" and ads cross bracing to enhance the overall rigidity of the suspension system. I will also confer with them about the leaf springs. I expect that a a minimum, I will swap out the street side with higher rated springs.2022 F450 Platinum
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2024 Brinkley Model Z 3610
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02-09-2021, 11:37 PM #43
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Thanks for posting this. This somewhat similar to the road I may end up having to go down as well, if I level my truck. Let us know what the materials and labor will be for the subframe. Are you going to do any other suspension upgrades? It would seem this would be a great time to upgrade to something like the Roadmaster Comfort Ride slipper springs and shocks.
What levelling kit did you use on your truck?
2017 Ford F450 - our kids call her "Big Red"
2018 Grand Design Reflection 28bh
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02-10-2021, 12:58 PM #44
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I used a kit manufactured by PMF (Precision Metal Fab). This is top notch stuff that I have used on previous trucks. I went with a 2 1/2" bottom mount coil spacer (to preserve my 5600 pound front springs), sway bar drop brackets, alignment cams, adjustable trackbar, dual stabilizer kit, Fox 2.0 shocks, and Fox 2.0 stabilizers.
Now on to the trailer suspension. The guys at the shop discouraged me from lifting the trailer. They don't typically go any higher than the as built 2 X 2 welded to the I beam. I have to say, to the eye, the truck and trailer both appear to be pretty level. They expressed concern about overall height of the trailer (stability) and the additional 2 X 3 tubing it would take to achieve my desired height. They weren't keen on the idea of welding a 2 X 3 to the current 2 X 2. Anyways, in the end, I decided to upgrade all of the leaf springs and cross brace the three hangers. They expect the new leaf springs to yield about 1" of lift between the additional leaf in each pack and the fact that they will actually be arched. They will also do a bearing and brake service. Total bill is $1600. I have no idea if that is a reasonable price but I am willing to pay it, so it's a acceptable deal to me. The shop is well respected and I have a coworker that had them do extensive work on his boat trailer and was very happy with the work. Also, I'm in So Cal so everything is pricy. Their labor rate is $125 so that's the primary driver. $564 parts, $975 labor, and the remainder is tax and shop materials/welding gas. They will complete all work today.2022 F450 Platinum
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2024 Brinkley Model Z 3610
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02-10-2021, 02:15 PM #45
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Just a note: We took our truck, 2017 F350 4X4 DRW 6.7 LB CC, and trailer, 2014 Solitude 369RL, to a local spring and chassis professional shop in St. Paul, MN which has been in business for about 80 years. We went there to get a professional opinion about lowering our truck. Our trailer is high in the front just like many others when hooked up to our truck. We parked on a level paved parking lot and the shop tech came out and took appropriate measurements. His conclusion was that if we lowered the back of our truck enough to level the trailer that the back of our truck would be about half an inch lower than the front of our truck. He went on to explain that if the back of a truck is lower than the front that truck will not handle well. He said the back will tend to wander side to side as we drive. He recommended that we leave the truck as it is and investigate raising our trailer. We will look into this idea as soon as all of the snow melts and winter is over. Hope this helps.
test
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02-10-2021, 04:33 PM #46
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Thanks for the update. What you're reporting is something that seems very reasonable. Raising the fifth wheel raises the center of gravity of an already tall trailer. That can't be good for handling. With the Reflections being typically in the 12 foot high range, a couple of inches taller may not be as big of a deal. But the folks with the Momentums are already at their height limit for the most part.
I've refrained from doing any suspension modifications to my truck for now because I just don't want to end up nose high. As it is right now, when I load up the fiver, the trailer tows every so slightly nose high - we're talking a really tiny bit. I certainly don't want my truck to be any taller. I've got about 8" of clearance between the underside of the fiver and my bedrails. So I could theoretically move the mounting one notch. I may end up going to with a Pullrite 2600 hitch which has some built in height adjustment as well.
I think your suspension shop's plan to upgrade the spring pack and reinforce the spring hangers is an excellent one. I'm going to look at the Roadmaster Comfort Ride Slipper Springs and shocks, as well as doing the same boxing upgrade to the spring hangers you did.
For the truck, I'm leaning towards just replacing the junk oem/Rancho shocks with some Fox 2.0 and some Sulastic shackles. That way I won't alter the height of the truck. I may also end up swapping out the Continental HD2's for Toyo M655 which I've heard good things about.
2017 Ford F450 - our kids call her "Big Red"
2018 Grand Design Reflection 28bh
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02-12-2021, 10:32 AM #47
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2022 F450 Platinum
B & W Companion
2024 Brinkley Model Z 3610
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02-13-2021, 09:13 AM #48
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If you're still a little nose high maybe these will help.
Stock tires ST235/80R16 to ST235/85R16
Add 1/2" lifting block under the spring pack. I would limit the lifting block to 1/2". Maybe someone sells a spring pad that's a little taller.2024 Ford F350 CCSB Lariat 7.3 4.30
Sold- 2022 F150 Lariat 4x4
Sold - 2020 Ford F350 Tremor 7.3 4.30
Sold - 2020 GD Reflection 303RLS, 2019 GD Imagine 2250 RK
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09-03-2022, 11:57 AM #49
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I recently purchased a 2022 Solitude 2930RL fitted with a goose box and the TV is a 2019 Chevrolet 2500HD 4x4 with 34" tires and airbags. I did not raise the truck at all so the stock height, with the goose box set as high as it can be mounted, gives me about 5.5" to 6" trailer to bed rails but is nose high. I need to raise the trailer 2.5" at the axles to level it out for towing. I have called GD to see if they have a recommendation and they want to get on a video call to take a look. The existing hangers have already been reinforced at the factory so I really don't want to modify those. I would like to get 2.5" lifting blocks and new u-bolts to bring this back into level and have been trying to find what others are doing to remedy this situation but have found very little on the subject. My fifth wheel overall height is 13'-2" hooked up to the truck at the highest point and that should not change even with the lifting blocks on the axles. There is a company on that I found that makes specific lifting blocks for trailers as they are slimmer than the normal truck lifting blocks. GD first told me the dealer should have set this up during delivery but that did not happen and getting back into our local dealer take months and they are not fast with the repairs. Any thoughts or advise?
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09-03-2022, 12:21 PM #50
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That's not such a good picture, perspective-wise, as it looks very nose high.
If you use leveling blocks, you'd be wise to then invest in some kind of reinforcing of the hangers side-to-side. Would moving to shorter tires help?Howard and Peggy
2019 Momentum 351M, and 2018 RAM Cummins dually 6-speed.
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